I maintain: "In most cases, a born-again Christian is better off in an Assemblies of God church than in an IFB church."
Proposed rules (which are open to negotiation)
1) No hatred, scorn, insults, or name-calling
2) My worthy opponent can choose whether to be "A" or "B"
3) First day: "A" will post one or two paragraphs
4) Second day: "B" will respond with one or two paragraphs limited to a rebuttal.
5) Third day: "B" will post one or two paragraphs
6) Fourth day: "A" will respond with one or two paragraphs limited to a rebuttal
7) Fifth day: "A" will post one or two paragraphs
8) Sixth day: "B" will post one or two paragraphs limited to rebuttal
9) Seventh and Eighth day: Upon their word that they actually read all the posts, all members of this forum may vote on the winner.
10) Ninth day: Thread is opened to anybody who wishes to post in a courteous manner.
Takers?
I'd take it on, but I don't know much about AOG churches.
I intend to keep it light. Since you and I are both gentlemen, it shouldn't get out of hand. It will be easier if you agree to be "B."
(06-27-2016, 01:30 PM)Vincent Massi Wrote: [ -> ]I intend to keep it light. Since you and I are both gentlemen, it shouldn't get out of hand. It will be easier if you agree to be "B."
I'm willing to give it a shot. I'll try to take the position of "B".
My worthy opponent has accepted!
The Apostle Paul devotes entire chapters to spiritual gifts. He explains that every Christian has at least one spiritual gift, and that we are to seek to have more: "Covet the better gifts, but especially that you may prophesy." Therefore, the AOG expects every born-again Christian to produce results in some area.
The IFBs demand results in soul-winning and separation. Successful teaching, care for the poor, loving and helping one another, etc., are minimized or ignored.
(06-27-2016, 02:43 PM)Vincent Massi Wrote: [ -> ]My worthy opponent has accepted!
The Apostle Paul devotes entire chapters to spiritual gifts. He explains that every Christian has at least one spiritual gift, and that we are to seek to have more: "Covet the better gifts, but especially that you may prophesy." Therefore, the AOG expects every born-again Christian to produce results in some area.
The IFBs demand results in soul-winning and separation. Successful teaching, care for the poor, loving and helping one another, etc., are minimized or ignored.
First, remember that I'm taking a side to which I don't subscribe. I'm playing "devil's advocate", if you will.
The problem with AOG is that its beliefs are based on gifts, which have ceased. The dispensation of gifts is over. Some AOG churches go so far as to expect you to show signs that you have been baptized in the Holy Spirit by speaking in tongues. This puts pressure on people to speak gibberish, just to prove they've been baptized by the Holy Spirit. If the gifts are false, then results they produce are based on a false premise. It's like building a castle on sand.
IFBs produce results from a practical, tangible approach to soul winning, not from imaginary gifts. IFBs are engaged in missions, which do care for the poor in the sense that IFBs want the poor to be saved. As for helping one another, IFB love is tough love. IFBs preach the reality of sin and hell. There is no point in making people feel good if they're destined for hell.
I don't really have much else to say, although I did a little research. If you look at this list of core beliefs of AOG, you'll see that they actually share much in common with IFB.
http://ag.org/top/beliefs/statement_of_f..._short.cfm
The only places where the two part significantly is regarding speaking in tongues and divine healing. But the listed beliefs include missions and spreading the Gospel.
Actually, there may be a third difference. The AOG regards the "church" as being the church universal: "'the Church' is the Body of Christ and consists of the people who, throughout time, have accepted God's offer of redemption (regardless of religious denomination) through the sacrificial death of His son Jesus Christ".
IFB leans more toward 'the Church' as being a local entity in the present time. And, as you said, it is more separatist. You're more likely to find IFBs who believe that if you're not IFB, you're probably not saved.
A minor difference I have with AOG beliefs is that they say Adam was originally good. The Bible doesn't say that. It says Adam was innocent. That's not the same thing.
In response to my worthy opponent's statement that IFBs and AOGs are similar in doctrine:
The IFBs teach that holiness is both the cause and result of man-made rules. But the Bible teaches that man-made rules have an appearance of wisdom, because they make you deny the flesh; but they do not improve your flesh, and they produce pride in the flesh. One of their strong man-made rules is that we can only read the KJV. Brethren, you would not believe the amount of knowledge and blessing you get from reading different translations, and you miss those blessing in the KJO movement.
Nowhere do the Scriptures teach that "the dispensation of gifts is over." Has God stopped giving Christians the ability to teach, have knowledge, have wisdom, help, comfort, exhort, etc.? And while IFB soul-winning consists mainly of getting unrepentant people to repeat a prayer, the AOG, in one century, has outgrown all the Baptists combined to become the largest Christian group in the world. There are no Baptist mega-churches outside the US, while the AOG thrives in many nations.
One of the main delusions of the IFB movement is that they are soul-winners, and that their movement is built on soul-winning. Actually, the IFB movement is a reaction to the southern Baptist Convention's rejection of holiness, and until Jerry Falwell, ALL IFB leaders were Southern Baptists. With Jack Hyles as a glaring exception, almost every large IFB church consisted of Southern Baptists who were already saved when they joined.
As a group, Baptists have failed to keep out modernism, Calvinism, and Ruckmanism. The Assemblies of God has excelled in keeping out all three. A strong stand for God's Word, the use of spiritual gifts, and the demand that their members produce results in some area have made the AOG the soul-winning success that the IFB can only claim to be.
Uh-oh. Is my worthy opponent all right?