Around 1970, my pastor took me to hear John R. Rice preach. The beloved evangelist (whom I highly respect) had started Galilean Baptist Church in Texas, and he would not allow anyone to teach or hold any position unless they showed up for weekly soul-winning. You could see the pain in his face and hear it in his voice, as he told about people who then left his church and built large Sunday School classes in other churches, criticizing Rice in the process.
How could God do this? "The gifts and calling of God are without repentance." God gives us spiritual gifts to build up His church. Dr. Rice forbade these people to use their gifts if they didn't show up for soul-winning--a requirement that God never gave. So they built up the Church elsewhere.
I've contended for years that Proverbs 11:30 isn't about spreading the Gospel.
In fact, if you pay attention to the flow of proverbs 11, you'll see that there are contrasting statements in each verse. For example,
Pro 11:28 Whoever trusts in his riches will fall, but the righteous will flourish like a green leaf.
Proverbs 11:30 states....
Pro 11:30 The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life, and whoever captures souls is wise.
So.... Proverbs 11:30 isn't talking about winning the lost. Well... it is... But its not in a good way. The devil has been capturing souls for a LONG time!!!!
The OLD Greek texts of Proverbs 11 is different. Verse 30 reads....
but the souls of transgressors are cut off before their time.
Either choice..... it has nothing to do with "soul winning" as argued in IFB churches everywhere.
I have nothing against evangelism. Preach the Gospel wherever and whenever you can. Scheduling a weekly meeting and demanding someone attend to go "soul winning" is being rather demanding of disciples in ways our Lord never required.
We have seen from Scripture that everybody has a spiritual gift “for the profit of all.” The second thing you need to know is that you are commanded to seek more gifts.
But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way. 1 Cor. 12:31
God has better sense than to hand a loaded gun to a child. When you pray for a powerful gift, God might start working in your life to remove the reasons why He doesn’t trust you with that gift. But as spiritual growth and spiritual gifts increase in a Christian's life, that Christian is going to become more effective in service.
Are you frustrated because you aren’t doing more for Christ? Then obey 1 Cor. 12:31. Read the Scriptures on spiritual gifts and pray for God to give you better gifts than what you have. He might start working on spiritual growth first, but stay with Him—God WANTS you to have more spiritual gifts.
What Spiritual gifts do you discern from Scripture?
You're misusing 1 Cor 12:31. Paul is setting the stage to talk about "love". The bond of perfect.
Col 3:14 And to all these virtues add love, which is the perfect bond.
Everyone has a place in the body of Christ.
What gifts do you desire Vincent?
PY, I desire the better gifts. Yes, Paul does go on to explain that love is more important than spiritual gifts. In fact, love is the most important part of the Christian life. It is more important than baptism, witnessing, bible-study, church, and doctrine. But all of these other things, including spiritual gifts, are important.
(07-12-2016, 11:48 PM)Vincent Massi Wrote: [ -> ]PY, I desire the better gifts. Yes, Paul does go on to explain that love is more important than spiritual gifts. In fact, love is the most important part of the Christian life. It is more important than baptism, witnessing, bible-study, church, and doctrine. But all of these other things, including spiritual gifts, are important.
Can you name the "better gifts"?
Thanks
The Bible tells us that we all have at least one spiritual gift, that these gifts are to edify the church, and that we are to covet earnestly the best gifts.
Romans 12 commands us to use our gifts. Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy,let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith; Or ministry, let us wait on our ministering: or he that teacheth, on teaching; Or he that exhorteth, on exhortation: he that giveth, let him do it with simplicity; he that ruleth, with diligence; he that sheweth mercy, with cheerfulness.
John R. Rice, a very Godly man, fouled up the church he started by forbidding members to obey these commands unless they went soul-winning. This passage says nothing about soul-winning, although we are told elsewhere that spiritual gifts are designed to build up the church.
But this passage does tell you to use your spiritual gifts.
(07-13-2016, 02:51 PM)Vincent Massi Wrote: [ -> ]The Bible tells us that we all have at least one spiritual gift, that these gifts are to edify the church, and that we are to covet earnestly the best gifts.
Romans 12 commands us to use our gifts. Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy,let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith; Or ministry, let us wait on our ministering: or he that teacheth, on teaching; Or he that exhorteth, on exhortation: he that giveth, let him do it with simplicity; he that ruleth, with diligence; he that sheweth mercy, with cheerfulness.
John R. Rice, a very Godly man, fouled up the church he started by forbidding members to obey these commands unless they went soul-winning. This passage says nothing about soul-winning, although we are told elsewhere that spiritual gifts are designed to build up the church.
But this passage does tell you to use your spiritual gifts.
I still don't see where you listed the "best gifts".
The "best gifts" are implied in chapter 13 thru 14 or those gifts that edify others.
Do you believe that speaking in an unknown tongue edifies others?
Sorry, PY. I meant to get back to you sooner, but something came up at the church.
1 Cor. 12: 28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
I regard prophecy (comforting, edifying, and exhorting the saints ) and teaching as two of the better gifts. Tongues is a lesser gift, I don't speak in tongues, I don't pray for tongues, and I have serious problems believing that charismatics actually do speak in tongues.
(07-13-2016, 10:32 PM)Vincent Massi Wrote: [ -> ]Sorry, PY. I meant to get back to you sooner, but something came up at the church.
1 Cor. 12: 28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
I regard prophecy (comforting, edifying, and exhorting the saints ) and teaching as two of the better gifts. Tongues is a lesser gift, I don't speak in tongues, I don't pray for tongues, and I have serious problems believing that charismatics actually do speak in tongues.
Thanks for the clarification.
I believe 1 Cor. 12:28 is more of a ranking order for authority than actually ranking "better gifts"
For the sake of argument, would for example....... should we desire the ability to do miracles? Remember the story of Simon in Acts 8:24?
Yes. These maybe considered gifts to the entire body of Christ. However, taken as a whole, we are all gifted differently. Desiring to have a gift that we do not possess according to God's purpose, is futile.
We can never attain the "gift" of being an apostle. God has fit the body together as it has so pleased Him. The fruit of the Spirit is also a "gift" from God. Just a few thoughts.