The Fighting Fundamental Forums

Serious question for bible students....

If you know the textual history of the book of Matthew, you know that history is difficult to discern. According to what we find in the historical records, The writing wasn't even attributed to "Matthew" until as much as 50 years after its writing. The writer is anonymous. He is never named in the work and only tradition places the author to be Matthew. 

There is also a very good chance that Matthew was originally written in Hebrew and represented a "Hebrew" perspective of the life of Christ. What I mean by that is.... "Matthew" comes from a distinctly Jewish mind. The perspective of the writer is really unmistakable. The writer sees Jesus Christ as King. Ruler of Jews. A fulfillment of the prophesy concerning the line of David. 

The verse I'd like to draw your attention to is 

Mat 5:14  Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. 

This verse unique in the Synoptic Gospels. You will not find this phrase repeated anywhere. Its not to be found. Only Matthew contains it.

This verse contradicts these verses

Joh 9:5  As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world. 
Joh 8:12  Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life. 

Even John refused to accept such an association....He plainly said. He was not the light.....

Joh 1:7  The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. 
Joh 1:8  He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. 
Joh 1:9  That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. 

My question is....

How do you reconcile this issue? Its not just as simple as saying.... somehow.... we are the light of the world and Jesus is the light of the world too. 

There isn't one single verse in the entire New Testament that even begins to say what Matthew 5:14 says. Yes. We are the children of the light but we are not the light. We should never and I mean never place ourselves in the position of Christ. He alone is the Light. 

He alone hath immortality dwelling in the Light. 

1Ti 6:16  Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen. 

Many people have taken Matthew 5:14 as justification to say that many people are the light that people need. Do we really want to say that? I've never been good enough to make that claim. I know someone who is. There is only one of them....

i;m not a bible scholar by any means.... and maybe even a poor bible student compared to the average fighting fundamentalist on this forum, and even across the others.....  but i don;t see a contradiction in any of those verses with regards to the other scripture.... ....... 

Jesus is indeed the light of the world....  and without Him in the world there is no light.... .... and in our natural state... without Jesus..... we know nothing of light and cannot in and of ourselves be any part of light....just as it says in 1st timothy 6..... . but when Jesus is Lord of our lives His light shines in us and since He is not currently physically present on this earth that light shining through us is what people see.... and it is in that context that Jesus spoke of us being "the light of the world" in matthew 5;14.... ..... and told us we should set His light shining through us on a hill.. rather than hide it.... so the world can see it and be drawn to Him...... ...... 

but even if we do set that light shining in us on a hill and the world is drawn to Jesus because of it...... we are not that light ourselves........  it is only us bearing witness of that light...... in the same way john the baptist was mentioned bearing a witness to that light in john 1;7-9 ..... the light is Jesus..... we are just a reflector like a prism in a light house which becomes a useless piece of glass if the light behind it is extinguished...... 

but those who believe they can be a light unto the world without Jesus..... .or aside from Him...... ... thinking the light of Jesus somehow ignites them into being a light in and of themselves... .are deceived and sadly mistaken.... and they will in turn deceive those in the world who follow them...... 

i might be wrong..... like i said... i;m no bible scholar... but that;s is how i have always interpreted the combination of all those verses regardless of which bible version i read them in or which language...... 

(03-04-2017, 04:38 PM)aleshanee Wrote: [ -> ]i;m not a bible scholar by any means.... and maybe even a poor bible student compared to the average fighting fundamentalist on this forum, and even across the others.....  but i don;t see a contradiction in any of those verses with regards to the other scripture.... ....... 

You're have always shown to be a very knowledgeable when it comes to the Bible. More so than most anyone.

Quote:Jesus is indeed the light of the world....  and without Him in the world there is no light.... .... and in our natural state... without Jesus..... we know nothing of light and cannot in and of ourselves be any part of light....just as it says in 1st timothy 6..... . but when Jesus is Lord of our lives His light shines in us and since He is not currently physically present on this earth that light shining through us is what people see.... and it is in that context that Jesus spoke of us being "the light of the world" in matthew 5;14.... ..... and told us we should set His light shining through us on a hill.. rather than hide it....  so the world can see it and be drawn to Him...... ...... 

First let me say.... I see exactly what you're saying. Its well said and represents the majority view concerning the Sermon on the mount. However, contextually speaking. This is very problematic. There is no concept present of the inward possession of Christ reflecting through externally to those around us in this supposed sermon from Jesus. Not that I'm saying it the sermon didn't take place. I personally believe it did. Yet, just because the sermon took place doesn't mean I believe the verses I mentioned were spoken by Christ. Yet.... Jesus present no concept of Christ shining through for others to see. The sermon simply talks of "good works" being seen. Which is a distinctly Pharisee...ical view of theology. A theology that was controlling the narrative during the time of Christ. 

There has been a concerted effort to focus on the similarities between the Synoptic Gospels to show just how they complement one another. However, very few people are willing to discuss how they are different. They do not always agree and all three seek to drive a different narrative. Narratives are important. Narratives set forth a process of thought that drives the end result of one's thinking. 

Quote:but even if we do set that light shining in us on a hill and the world is drawn to Jesus because of it...... we are not that light ourselves........  it is only us bearing witness of that light...... in the same way john the baptist was mentioned bearing a witness to that light in john 1;7-9 ..... the light is Jesus..... we are just a reflector like a prism in a light house which becomes a useless piece of glass if the light behind it is extinguished...... 

Yet John refused to be called the light. The sermon on the mount does not say "bearing witness of the light". It says, you are the light of the world. I believe there is important distinct to be seen here. I also there is a better way to reference the light than to say, look at how I reflect the light. We must admit we are poor reflections of the light. I stopped believing I somehow was a clean piece of glass that provided a proper reflection....a long time ago. At best, we are smoky pieces of glass. At our best, we block some of the light. I started pointing to the Light.... Itself. I try tell people that I'm not the example. Christ is. I'm not the light. Christ is the light. That I'm dirty. No cleaner than anyone else. 

Quote:but those who believe they can be a light unto the world without Jesus..... .or aside from Him...... ... thinking the light of Jesus somehow ignites them into being a light in and of themselves... .are deceived and sadly mistaken.... and they will in turn deceive those in the world who follow them......

Well said. I agree completely. Even so, there are lots of people that only use the name of Christ as a means to an end. Sure, they'll talk of Christ here and there...... all the while they're getting all the glory for doing so. I've been bugging this person, he's popular in my area, on his facebook page. You should see what his followers say.... Things like...."he's changed my life"......

I just want to say... didn't Christ do that for you? Or doesn't Christ do that for you?

I'm sure they'd quote Matthew 5 at me if I pressed them..... See... I'm a light... 

Quote:i might be wrong..... like i said... i;m no bible scholar... but that;s is how i have always interpreted the combination of all those verses regardless of which bible version i read them in or which language...... 

Thanks for your contributions. I always enjoy them!!

i re-examined it a few times.... .and truthfully, i think it;s only problematic for the overly nit-picky..... ... what i see of the light that Christ was talking about in the sermon on the mount is that light of Christ which is manifested through us by our good works..... not saying that we are in and of ourselves the source of light like Christ Himself is..... but simply a testimony of that light and a reflection of it by allowing our good works to show how that light changed our lives... ... Christ called us the light of the world because He knew that once He was no longer on earth we would be the only testimony to His light that the world would see... and the only way they would know of it was by seeing our good works.... .......... 

but as far allowing oneself to be called "the light".... as in the very same light that Jesus is..... john and others were correct in refusing to allow that....it would be akin to allowing others to worship us or kneel to us... .....  ....and even the angels refuse to allow that be done to them...... ..

there is no contradiction in any of scripture..... taken in context and in full... ..not parsed out verse by verse... . the bible is very plain and not in the least bit confusing.... but beyond that i would say.... don;t fall into the trap of thinking you can find some secret in the bible nobody has ever seen before, and which changes the way we have all been taught to believe for over 2 thousand years.. ....that is how cults are born.....