The Fighting Fundamental Forums

I got in a rather heated discussion with "you shouldn't vote" advocate a few weeks ago. He was basically making the argument that God establishes all "kings/rulers" based on Romans 13..... Thus you shouldn't vote. God is actively working to bring about whom he wants to win the election. 

Well, there are multiple problems with this thinking but lets deal with the real issue....

Romans 13 isn't about a Constitutional Republic form of government. The "empowerment" God is speaking of in Romans 13 is not in a single ruler. Its in the people of our Republic. This reflected/witnessed in the Preamble to our Constitution.

"We the people in order to form a more perfect union"

Simply put, God has empowered the citizens of the United States with governing power. We entrust that power to "elected officials" within our Government. We appoint these official through participating in a election by voting for the candidates of our choice. 

This perfectly complimentary to what Paul taught in Romans 13. 

Besides.... who ever voted for a King, Emperor, or Monarchy? 

What say you?

I couldn't agree more -- in principle. That's not how our government works anymore, though. It has turned into an oligarchy. Our elected officials aren't obeying or defending the constitution anymore.

But voting is one way to fix that.

(05-04-2016, 03:55 PM)The Rogue Tomato Wrote: [ -> ]I couldn't agree more -- in principle.  That's not how our government works anymore, though.  It has turned into an oligarchy.  Our elected officials aren't obeying or defending the constitution anymore.  

But voting is one way to fix that.

I agree with you on "oligarchy".....

That "oligarchy" is made of "elites" from all political spectrums. There really isn't much of a difference between them. I hope that will soon change. I plan on voting in hopes it will change.

(05-04-2016, 03:55 PM)The Rogue Tomato Wrote: [ -> ]I couldn't agree more -- in principle.  That's not how our government works anymore, though.  It has turned into an oligarchy.  Our elected officials aren't obeying or defending the constitution anymore. 

But voting is one way to fix that.

voting was one way to fix that.... .until this last election when democrats took election fraud into the realm of fine arts..


1st... mail in ballots were stolen... (per the people who testified they never got one)...... ..

then.... unused and un-deliverable ballots were collected en-mass.... .(per postal service employees who testified under oath they saw it happen.. .even helped collect and transport these ballots which then disappeared..)..

blank ballots were handed out to democrat activists to fill out and turn back in.. (speculated by some since none of the blank and unused ballots collected by the post office have ever turned up.... ..if nobody filled them out then where are they?.... and why was the voter turn out of registered voter as high as 120% even in the light of so many ballots being unused and re-collected?)...

suspicios ballots..ones that would not pass the scrutiny of poll watchers... were held back and kept in suit cases under tables...  then brought out and fed into machines after poll watchers were gone... (video evidence from counting rooms of poll workers doing this exists ..were these the ballots that had been stolen or collected by the post office as un-deliverable?..... we will never know now.... having been mixed with the rest of counted ballots they are untraceable)

plus photocopies of completed ballots were made and mixed in with the rest prior to being counted....(as reported by poll workers who saw stacks of ballots with identical markings that looked photocopied... all for biden... with no down ballot votes... and none for trump)..... .

and then on election night when even that didn;t seem to put biden in the lead.... republican poll watchers were told to go home while democrat workers stayed and fed stacks of already counted ballots back into the machines to be counted again..... ..as many times as it took until biden had the lead...... (video evidence from counting rooms also exists of this very thing happening.... yet to date nobody in the video has been questioned about it)

and finally the complete and thorough sweeping of this all under the rug by the justice department and court systems....from bob barr to the supreme court, nobody wants to even look at it.... the courts dismiss the cases brought to them without even reviewing them... and bob barr declares not enough evidence exists... or that the amount of election fraud evident was not enough to make a difference..... .....while americans... specifically trump supporters remember that the fake russian collusion story in 2016, was investigated for 3 years with no evidence at all.....

(05-04-2016, 03:40 PM)admin Wrote: [ -> ]I got in a rather heated discussion with "you shouldn't vote" advocate a few weeks ago. He was basically making the argument that God establishes all "kings/rulers" based on Romans 13..... Thus you shouldn't vote. God is actively working to bring about whom he wants to win the election. 

Well, there are multiple problems with this thinking but lets deal with the real issue....

Romans 13 isn't about a Constitutional Republic form of government. The "empowerment" God is speaking of in Romans 13 is not in a single ruler. Its in the people of our Republic. This reflected/witnessed in the Preamble to our Constitution.

"We the people in order to form a more perfect union"

Simply put, God has empowered the citizens of the United States with governing power. We entrust that power to "elected officials" within our Government. We appoint these official through participating in a election by voting for the candidates of our choice. 

This perfectly complimentary to what Paul taught in Romans 13. 

Besides.... who ever voted for a King, Emperor, or Monarchy? 

What say you?

.
 i absolutely agree with your view of this......  the same discussion is taking place right now on the other forum.....  whats strange is i never heard controversy about this chapter of romans until i joined the old fff.... . and i also never saw so many christians convinced that romans 13 applied to the pagan roman government that was persecuting christians at the time paul wrote it..... ...contradictory views on many counts.... .