The Fighting Fundamental Forums

Thoughts? Forget for a minute the Catholic stuff about the sacraments -- I'm just curious about your thoughts about the 4 levels of hell.

You don't have to go very far into the video before the speaker makes some very common mistakes. 

The word used by Jesus to describe the place where the "Rich man" suffered, in Greek is "Hades". Hades is found 82 times throughout the Greek OT and NT. It is also used in several important prophetic verses such as Psalm 16:10 and Psalm 116:3.

Also, The Greek form of "Gehenna" is only found 9 times in the NT and not once in the entirety of the Greek OT. Not once. In fact, Gehenna in the Hebrew OT is largely a geographical boundry established in Joshua 15. 

The issue is really one of tradition. Jewish oral tradition. Often vain traditions. In the Mishnah and various Targums, Gehenna became what the author generally describes based on how King Ahaz sacrificed his sons there by making them "pass through the fire". 

2Ch 28:3  Moreover he burnt incense in the valley of the son of Hinnom, and burnt his children in the fire, after the abominations of the heathen whom the LORD had cast out before the children of Israel. KJV

2Ch 28:3  And he sacrificed to their idols in the valley of Benennom, and passed his children through the fire, according to the abominations of the heathen, whom the Lord cast out from before the children of Israel. Brenton. 

Theologians are reluctant to deal with the word "Hades" because of what it meant in Greek and Roman culture. Which, on the contrary, is the very reason we should. Hades represents the place of tormented humanity.

I have more to say but I don't have time right now. I'll update later. Good question!

The man in the video also right out lies about Luke 16:22 and the story of the Rich man. 

Luke 16:22 does not have the word "hell" at all. Also, Verse 23 very clearly says Hades or "αδη". Thus, this man's very argument shows that Hades is the place of torment. 

The word Gehenna or "γεενναν" in the NT is used sparingly. It is only found 12 times and primarily in Matthew and Mark. Which come from greater Hebrew influence than Luke or John. Luke only has Gehenna once. That is in Luke 12:5. 

Gehenna, over time, became to be associated with the specific ideal of punishment. There is really no reason to see a literal difference between Hades and Gehenna. 

1. Hades and Gehenna both represent the torment of the wicked with the understanding that Gehenna is largely tradition not even widely accepted among all NT writers. 

Then there is the issue of Abraham's Bosom. Traditionally speaking. This "place" has largely been associated with some side or chamber of "hell". I personally believe this teaching to be very weak. It is based on just a few verses. One is found in Luke in the story of the Rich man, another is found in Ephesians 4:8

Eph 4:8  Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.


and another in 1 Peter 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 

Of all these 1 Peter 3:19 is the most appealed to verse and the most disputed. I believe that the "spirits in prison" are either the devils/demons held in chains to notify them of His glorious triumph or it could be a reference to the Gentile world. Either way.....

2. There is no real evidence that Abraham's Bosom is part of some split/divided "hell". 

Abraham's Bosom is most like just a reference to heaven. 

Then there is limbo. Which is largely derived from the ideals of praying for the dead.....

Will continue later.

i wasn;t able to watch the video.... ....i find it almost impossible to watch presentations made up of mostly talking heads with faces in the camera... i won;t say it puts me through a level of hell.. .. but it comes close.. ...  .. ... ..... ... but i do recall that, Jesus... when speaking against the cities that had rejected Him... taught it would be more tolerable in the day of judgement for others, condemned before He came.. than for those cities..... ....

but as far as levels of hell... . even though i do attend a catholic church.. .. i;m not sure i follow what many both inside and outside the catholic church are teaching on it..... ..... in fact i think most of what the average person believes on hell... ... even some of those in baptist circles.... .. actually comes from dantes inferno...  rather than the scriptures - as does that picture on the front of the video.....  .....in fact....that picture of a funnel shaped hell with levels looks as if it was lifted right out of an illustrated copy of dantes inferno itself....where dante described 9 levels of hell .. .. ... the labels applied to it are different... .. but the picture is the same..... .. 

i was taught that in essence hell was the absence of God.. ... and that Christ actually had began to suffer the torments of hell when He cried out to God from the cross, and asked why God had forsaken him...... as far as the 4 different names in scriptures for places where a person might reside after death... ..i;m not sure i believe all of them should be considered hell...... lazarus.... though clearly visible to the rich man, was not himself in hell as he rested in the arms of abraham....  .. but i do believe the scripture clearly says that the rich man was in hell... ... or hades as it was translated...by reason of his separation from God alone.. ... ....yet the descriptions of his accomidations... and other descriptions of hades in scripture.... was not anything like that of the lake of fire which is described as the second death in revelation ... ..so hades and the lake of fire in the second death, are clearly 2 separate places....... and according to scripture the last one is far worse than the first.... ....

but to be honest since being saved.... other than being thankful i am not going there.... i haven;t given that much thought to hell or any levels it might have... .. and generally only speak of it simply tell the unsaved about hell while presenting the gospel to them in hopes they will make a decision for Christ that allows them to escape it too... ...... ...i;ll have to do some more study on this and get back to you...... .