The Fighting Fundamental Forums

I find it difficult to tolerate the branding of Christ we see in this "modern" age. 

I'll give you a few examples.......

I follow several former IFBs from time to time. While they have largely abandoned the "title" of IFB (Independent Fundamental Baptist), in reality, they have only abandoned one "title" in exchange for many others. 

Over and over again, they talk about how "their people" or "their church" is the "most sincere" and "most Godly" people they've ever been around. How their son or minister of choice is the best that has ever existed. So genuine.... they say. 

Now. I know this is going to upset many people but its the truth. I don't understand how any minister of the Gospel can talk in such terms as these. I know WHY they do it. I do. I'll explain shortly. However, I don't understand how anyone that is a long term student of the Scriptures can talk of any people, Saved or not.... in such a manner. 

There is reason the true followers of God have always been largely loners. Just a remnant. Part of the "few" there be that find it.......

As ministers of the Gospel...... We don't embellish. We don't exaggerate. We don't pretend. We LIVE right square in the middle of reality. We don't flatter. We don't extol virtue beyond that which is found in Jesus Christ alone. In HIM. ALL peoples are equal and without HIM.... All peoples are equal. 

It is our mission and goal to make every person guilty before God. That they might seek the Righteousness that is of faith only found in the work of Jesus Christ.

Yet, at every turn...... they praise THEIR efforts. They extol THEIR group. They embellish THEIR cause and ALL LABELS are ONLY understood properly in THEIR OWN choices. 

The "LIGHT" has become THEIR ministry.

The more I live and learn, the more I feel distant from modern claims of Christ.

it doesn;t upset me.... ......i;m not sure i understand which... or all... of the churches that would fall under your definition of merchandising the gospel.... .. and which ones would not.... .... we might disagree on 1 or 2.... but maybe not..... ... i do know i am very turned off by preachers... pastors... and even teachers whose sermons.. lessons... and messages sound like an infomercial sales pitch........  .. and who label everything and everyone they represent as the "greatest ever"... "best ever"....."most godly"... "greatest of all time".... etc  .... ... .... ....to me it seems like they are always trying to sell us something..... .. and even the members of their churches come off as being always out for business and looking for a client..... .....  some of them even call us scorners when we disagree with them or refuse to "buy in"..

Jesus chased the money changers out of the temple..... but how how many times have you seen someone who makes a business out of speaking or singing in churches, sitting at a table in the foyer of a church selling their books and cds?..... ... i saw it the first time i ever visited a church outside the lutheran/catholic churches i grew up in.... ... i was not only shocked i was also immediately turned off..... ....i would have left immediately except i didn;t want to insult the person i was visiting with..... ...i did ask her about it though and she told me it was ok because all those books and cds were church related and done for the purpose of spreading the gospel.....  she said it is no different than paying money to buy a bible....... ..... ??? ....... ...does anyone sell bibles in the foyer of a church?

i didn;t tell her the first bible i ever owned was a red gideons bible that had been stolen from a hotel.... ..... .. but........ anyway......

(07-11-2019, 12:24 AM)aleshanee Wrote: [ -> ]it doesn;t upset me.... ......i;m not sure i understand which... or all... of the churches that would fall under your definition of merchandising the gospel.... .. and which ones would not.... .... we might disagree on 1 or 2.... but maybe not..... ... i do know i am very turned off by preachers... pastors... and even teachers whose sermons.. lessons... and messages sound like an infomercial sales pitch........  .. and who label everything and everyone they represent as the "greatest ever"... "best ever"....."most godly"... "greatest of all time".... etc  .... ... .... ....to me it seems like they are always trying to sell us something..... .. and even the members of their churches come off as being always out for business and looking for a client..... .....  some of them even call us scorners when we disagree with them or refuse to "buy in"..

Jesus chased the money changers out of the temple..... but how how many times have you seen someone who makes a business out of speaking or singing in churches, sitting at a table in the foyer of a church selling their books and cds?..... ... i saw it the first time i ever visited a church outside the lutheran/catholic churches i grew up in.... ... i was not only shocked i was also immediately turned off..... ....i would have left immediately except i didn;t want to insult the person i was visiting with..... ...i did ask her about it though and she told me it was ok because all those books and cds were church related and done for the purpose of spreading the gospel.....  she said it is no different than paying money to buy a bible....... ..... ??? ....... ...does anyone sell bibles in the foyer of a church?

i didn;t tell her the first bible i ever owned was a red gideons bible that had been stolen from a hotel.... ..... .. but........ anyway......

Excellent points. I think what you mentioned fits well under the category of "Merchandising the Gospel". 

My point is a little broader than the specifics you mentioned but definitely include them. 

I had some Scriptures in mind when I wrote the OP. One of those is 2 Peter 2:3

2Peter 2:3  And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not. 

1Cor 10:33  Even as I please all men in all things, not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved. 

I've said for many years that there just aren't many people around that will do anything against their own self interest. 

I'll add more later. Busy at the moment. Thank you!

(07-11-2019, 01:00 PM)admin Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-11-2019, 12:24 AM)aleshanee Wrote: [ -> ]it doesn;t upset me.... ......i;m not sure i understand which... or all... of the churches that would fall under your definition of merchandising the gospel.... .. and which ones would not.... .... we might disagree on 1 or 2.... but maybe not..... ... i do know i am very turned off by preachers... pastors... and even teachers whose sermons.. lessons... and messages sound like an infomercial sales pitch........  .. and who label everything and everyone they represent as the "greatest ever"... "best ever"....."most godly"... "greatest of all time".... etc  .... ... .... ....to me it seems like they are always trying to sell us something..... .. and even the members of their churches come off as being always out for business and looking for a client..... .....  some of them even call us scorners when we disagree with them or refuse to "buy in"..

Jesus chased the money changers out of the temple..... but how how many times have you seen someone who makes a business out of speaking or singing in churches, sitting at a table in the foyer of a church selling their books and cds?..... ... i saw it the first time i ever visited a church outside the lutheran/catholic churches i grew up in.... ... i was not only shocked i was also immediately turned off..... ....i would have left immediately except i didn;t want to insult the person i was visiting with..... ...i did ask her about it though and she told me it was ok because all those books and cds were church related and done for the purpose of spreading the gospel.....  she said it is no different than paying money to buy a bible....... ..... ??? ....... ...does anyone sell bibles in the foyer of a church?

i didn;t tell her the first bible i ever owned was a red gideons bible that had been stolen from a hotel.... ..... .. but........ anyway......

Excellent points. I think what you mentioned fits well under the category of "Merchandising the Gospel". 

My point is a little broader than the specifics you mentioned but definitely include them. 

I had some Scriptures in mind when I wrote the OP. One of those is 2 Peter 2:3

2Peter 2:3  And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not. 

1Cor 10:33  Even as I please all men in all things, not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved. 

I've said for many years that there just aren't many people around that will do anything against their own self interest. 

I'll add more later. Busy at the moment. Thank you!

it reminded me of matthew 6.... where Jesus describes those who embellish, pretend and exagerate.... making a big show of what they do for God ... or what they pretend to do.... .... and He says... 

"they have their reward".... . 

 then in matt 7 21-23.. Jesus appears to describe them again and also tells what will be their end..... 


"not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.......... .... many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? ....... .... and then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."


some might not agree that it;s the same general group of people Jesus was talking about in both matt 6 and also matt 7..... but i believe it was, because even in the presence of Jesus and talking directly to Him, they were bragging about what they had done... ...then simply added "in thy name" to the end of it.... ... ...... a pretense of giving God the glory... while heaping praise on themselves... ..... .. and believing their good works should be enough to save them..... ...