recently there has been a lot of confusion and misinformation about medical masks...... so i thought i would dig back into my long ago shelved medical education.... dust it off..... and try to shed some light on it....
N95 or surgical mask?...... which is best?..... and why will some not work in some cases?....
an N95 mask is designed to protect the wearer from pathogens someone else might be carrying... ..(think of a nurse assisting a tuberculosis patient in an isolation ward.... to protect the medical provider).... .. ... however.... a surgical mask is designed to protect others requiring medical assistance.... (or surgery)..... from whatever pathogens the medical provider is carrying... .. (hence the reason the surgeon and all assistants working in the operating room wear them..... to protect the patient)... . ....
neither mask will work well for the purpose that the other mask was intended....... and an N95 with a valve in it will actually enhance the possibility others might be exposed to whatever pathogens the wearer is carrying..... the reason?...... N95s are so effective at blocking air flow that the wearer can experience CO2 retention over time..... valves were added to them in recent years to make exhaling easier... ...if an N95 has no valve and is properly fitted then it will both protect the wearer and others around them..... . but if the wearer wears it for an extended period of time they will suffer CO2 retention.... literally turn blue... and eventually end up unconscious...... ..
but surgical masks... on the other hand.... stop exhaled droplets and pathogens from being expelled towards people in front of the wearer... they are designed to be worn extended periods of time..... ... but even in well made surgical masks.. when the wearer inhales..... air comes around the corners of the nose and eyes and goes directly into the wearers lungs..... .. so they are not ideal for protecting wearers from others ..... ..... however.... if everyone in a society is wearing surgical mask.... they will reduce the transmission of disease simply by reducing what all the people wearing the masks are expelling towards others and into the outside air.... . ..
in other words..... the available air out there to breathe would be a lot cleaner if everybody wore a surgical mask..... (not a valve equipped N95)..... . but let one person walk around all those surgically masked people without a mask... or with a valve equipped N95 ... and all bets are off..... ......a society wearing protective masks is like a chain which is only as strong as it;s weakest link... ... ...it only works right when there is full compliance....
(04-03-2020, 09:03 PM)aleshanee Wrote: [ -> ]recently there has been a lot of confusion and misinformation about medical masks...... so i thought i would dig back into my long ago shelved medical education.... dust it off..... and try to shed some light on it....
N95 or surgical mask?...... which is best?..... and why will some not work in some cases?....
an N95 mask is designed to protect the wearer from pathogens someone else might be carrying... ..(think of a nurse assisting a tuberculosis patient in an isolation ward.... to protect the medical provider).... .. ... however.... a surgical mask is designed to protect others requiring medical assistance.... (or surgery)..... from whatever pathogens the medical provider is carrying... .. (hence the reason the surgeon and all assistants working in the operating room wear them..... to protect the patient)... . ....
neither mask will work well for the purpose that the other mask was intended....... and an N95 with a valve in it will actually enhance the possibility others might be exposed to whatever pathogens the wearer is carrying..... the reason?...... N95s are so effective at blocking air flow that the wearer can experience CO2 retention over time..... valves were added to them in recent years to make exhaling easier... ...if an N95 has no valve and is properly fitted then it will both protect the wearer and others around them..... . but if the wearer wears it for an extended period of time they will suffer CO2 retention.... literally turn blue... and eventually end up unconscious...... ..
but surgical masks... on the other hand.... stop exhaled droplets and pathogens from being expelled towards people in front of the wearer... they are designed to be worn extended periods of time..... ... but even in well made surgical masks.. when the wearer inhales..... air comes around the corners of the nose and eyes and goes directly into the wearers lungs..... .. so they are not ideal for protecting wearers from others ..... ..... however.... if everyone in a society is wearing surgical mask.... they will reduce the transmission of disease simply by reducing what all the people wearing the masks are expelling towards others and into the outside air.... . ..
in other words..... the available air out there to breathe would be a lot cleaner if everybody wore a surgical mask..... (not a valve equipped N95)..... . but let one person walk around all those surgically masked people without a mask... or with a valve equipped N95 ... and all bets are off..... ......a society wearing protective masks is like a chain which is only as strong as it;s weakest link... ... ...it only works right when there is full compliance....
Couldn't have been said any better! Great!
Thanks for sharing! Right on time as always.
(04-09-2020, 03:57 PM)praise_yeshua Wrote: [ -> ]Couldn't have been said any better! Great!
Thanks for sharing! Right on time as always.
thank you.... .. .... i am not going out these days.... decided to stay home until this thing is over.... .... but i do see on the news and online what is happening out there... ..tons of people walking around with masks hanging off their chins or with noses exposed.... .. completely useless.... ....others will wear the mask properly but then move in close and pull it down off their face to talk to someone.... .....totally defeats the purpose... ..... ...
but what troubles me most is i am still seeing tons of people walking around with N95 masks equipped with valves.... ....do they not understand that while they are protecting themselves they could easily be infecting others with that kind of mask?... ..those masks are great for people removing dead and decomposed bodies from a mass disaster... ..(a setting where you don;t have to worry about what you breathe out... only what you breathe in)....... or even for painters working around toxic chemicals....... but completely inappropriate for this pandemic.... ...
one look around online at whose walking around outside and i feel very confident i made the right choice to stay home for now.......
but just in case any of our numerous lurkers might have doubted me on this..... here;s a news article posted today that explains pretty well what i was trying to say... ...
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical...li=BBnb7Kz
so..... even at a time that the greatly over rated st. fauci was telling the country there was no reason to wear a mask.... (early april).... i made the first post in this thread explaining exactly how and why wearing a mask would work... ..and even which mask was best for which purpose... and which one should never be worn at all.... ... ... all the same things all the so called "experts" including fauci are saying about masks today.....
of course to try and reclaim his credibility fauci later said he lied to the public intentionally in a "noble" effort to preserve the limited number of masks for medical workers.... ... .but to me and others with medical educations all he did was destroy his credibility.... . it would have been much better to tell the truth and tell people why they needed to leave medical masks for medical workers and make some workable alternative for themselves instead..... ..
short version of all this.... fauci was wrong... he is a liar..... . and i was right.... ...
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that;s it for the main post..... scientific information on how masks affect the body follows....
but all that aside.....
there is one thing i mentioned in my first post that several shade tree medical experts have tried to debunk and even claim is a myth.... ..and that is the fact that wearing of an N95 mask for prolonged periods can cause people to retain C02.... the shade tree know it alls, and wanna-be myth busters, (self described medical experts)...claim that is not true....
sorry self described medical experts... but what i said about that is a fact......
and what;s more... it;s exactly what people taught how to use protective medical equipment while going through medical school are taught as well..... here;s the real science on it.... ......
everyone who wrote about this being a myth brought up the fact that C02 molecules are very small and much smaller in fact than even the tiniest holes in an N95 mask..... thus the molecule has no problem passing through...... that much is true.... but it;s not the whole story and has nothing to do why N95 masks can cause C02 retention.....
N95 masks cause the wearer to use more effort to breathe.... ..in other words they cause mild labored breathing.. .which can lead to respiratory fatigue...(they tell you this when they teach how and when to use an N95... they say if you find it too easy to breathe with the mask on then it is not working and is not properly fitted)..... .....
the N95 mask also does a very effective job of trapping much larger droplets from a persons exhalations that are much larger than C02 molecules and which don;t pass easily through the holes in the mask.... ...(standard non-medical face coverings can do this too...... ..but they they are less likely to cause labored breathing coz the air leaks in and out around the corners of your mouth and nose...)... .... ..... ..these droplets build up over time and turn into a wet gooey mess inside the mask... .. which not only further blocks air flow in an N95... but also creates the perfect wet/warm environment for bacteria growth in both types of masks.....
but the thing the long term wearer of an N95 notices first.... even before they notice the build up of moisture inside their mask.... is that their respiratory effort becomes harder... ..not just from the moisture build up.... but from the effort required to move the air through an N95 over time.... the extra effort they noticed from the first moment they put on the mask turns into respiratory fatigue after a few hours... ... they become very tired with breathing.... .. and that respiratory fatigue results in hypo-ventilation.... or... to the laymen.... inadequate amounts of air being moved in and out of the lungs..... ... that is what causes the long term wearer to develop C02 retention..... ...and to a lesser extent mild hypoxia... ... ....
when C02 increases in the body of healthy people who are not chronic smokers, respirations will automatically be increased... .. and that will keep both oxygen and CO2 levels at a safe level for a while.... .. but as respiratory fatigue worsens respirations become shallow and will not be able to keep up with the rising level of CO2..... .... as a result arterial gas levels of both oxygen and C02 will be thrown off and the wearer will become dizzy... lightheaded.... maybe even panicked as both labored breathing and the bodys attempt to increase respirations combine with that lightheadedness..... ..... taking a mask off temporarily will bring a persons oxygen levels back to normal range and relieve any light-headedness they might have experienced... .... but respirations will remain accelerated and C02 levels will still remain high.. .... especially if they put the mask back on.... .
in rescue operations first responders wearing masks and other respiratory gear are often given supplemental oxygen when they begin to feel light headed.... that helps return their oxygen saturation to normal quickly.... ... but their C02 will continue to be high until they take the mask off completely and begin to draw in deep unimpeded breaths...... ..
ventilation - that is key to ridding the body of C02... not oxygenation. ...and that;s why a C02 increase caused by prolonged wearing of an N95 mask cannot be corrected while the mask is still being worn and air movement is still being impeded.... .... it;s also why if the lay person wearing a mask begins to feel lightheaded they must do more than simply take it off until they feel better... they need to get to a place where they can safely breathe without the mask and allow their respiratory effort to return to normal.... to blow off that excess C02.... ........
industrial N95 masks made for non-medical settings...like spray painting etc... disaster area dead body recovery etc etc.... ... are fitted with valves.... to facilitate expiratory ventilation and the exhalation of C02..and thus prevent C02 retention..... ..but those masks are by no means acceptable for use in a pandemic..or any medical setting ... which i explained better in my first post...
and of course there is much more to all this than the simple way i just presented it... such as how over oxygenation of a person with chronic obstructive pulmonary disease.. (think chronic smoker with burned out chemo-receptors)...can actually cause CO2 retention as well... ... but that would require an entire chapter worthy of a biology manual to adequately describe the processes of ventilation.. oxygenation and the exchange of gasses at the cellular level....
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... but anyway..... that;s it.... ..i just wanted to point out that i was right in march and april of this year and dr anthony fauci was wrong....... again.... ....there it is.... .
so once again.... thanks to flip flop fauci and his entourage saying one thing yesterday and something else today.... .. we are back to an atmosphere of mask confusion in the country.... ..and i could see this coming a long time ago when they started telling the lie that if someone is vaccinated or immune from a virus, it means they can no longer carry a virus or transmit it to others.......
wrong ......
they told that lie in order to convince people to get vaccinated.... they even admitted that;s why they were telling it.... same way fauci lied last year to try and prevent a run on medical masks by the general public.... well now he has help telling his lies so the confusion is much worse.....
but the fact is you can still carry and transmit a virus even though that virus.. due to your antibodies or t-cell status.. can no longer make you yourself sick, .. .... ...... if you don;t believe me i can drag out the medical biology and patho-physiology books and write an in depth post on it... ... but much of it is a matter of simple physics..... and it has little to do with break through infections...(another lie or half truth told by fauci)..... ... break through infections can make your ability to transmit viruses worse.. but it can happen even if you are healthy as long as the virus is in the air..... and you might not even be aware you have been infected with it.. ........ this is why as long as there is an active virus in pandemic proportion in any community it is better if everyone,.. even if they appear healthy or are certain they are.... wears... at the very minimum, .. a medical grade face covering until the danger is over... ..
case and point as far as physics is concerned?...... ...if you breathe in a significant amount of any virus whether you are vaccinated and immune or not ...some of that virus will get stuck in your nasal mucosa and oral pharynx... even your lungs.... where even though it does not make you sick, it will remain until you sneeze... and if you are not wearing a mask you will blow out a virus laden cloud of snot mist into the air..... ..viruses in that mist will be breathed in by others around you even if they are wearing masks... unless that mask they wear is an N95..... you immune or vaccination status will have no bearing on this event which is all a matter of physics and body mechanics... not immunity...
and ... contrary to false information circulating on several other forums repeating one of the first lies fauci told in early 2020.... you can also be infected yourself with this virus and be an asymptomatic carrier of it... infecting other people even though there is no indication you have it yourself.... .. ...throughout history every virus ever known has had a percentage of asymptomatic...(or cold)... carriers and spreaders....... remember typhoid mary?..... she was an asymptomatic carrier of typhoid that ended up killing other people though she herself appeared to be healthy and never had symptoms... ....
so this idea that if you are not sick... or you don;t have symptoms ... or you have been vaccinated... or have some other kind of immune status - means you don;t need to wear a mask in the midst of an on going pandemic or epidemic.. is out right false..... healthy asymptomatic people can still carry and transfer a virus to others..... medical history alone of past viral epidemics shows this .... and there is no reason to believe that this new virus is somehow "special" and won;t have the same person to person transmission capabilities other viruses have had......
remember.... only an N95 can protect you from others and also protect them from you... ..but they are only good for a few hours of use then must be replaced.... .and no they can;t be effectively cleaned.....
but a simple medical mask.. (not the counter-fit drug store made out of coffee filters or recycled t-shirts... and not the nancy pelosi head scarf kind worn over your face either).... but a real medical grade exam mask, protects others from what you breathe out.... and more specifically protects others from being hit by any sneezed out misted snot i mentioned before, ..... they are very good at catching and keeping that.... (which is why it is important to change any mask you wear daily to prevent a messy build up of such secretions right under your nose)but if you really want to see how effective they are at stopping what you breathe in. ..do this simple test... wear a simple medical grade mask and stand for a few hours in the smoke from a barbecue grill.... then take it off and look in the mirror at the grease and smoke trails going from the edges of that mask right into your nose..... ...
and on another note, a lot of this viral transmission escalation would be greatly reduced if people could just learn to stop walking up nose to nose and getting in each others faces to talk.... .. but that;s another issue.... maybe for another time... ....
and on another side note.... be careful with regards to what you see reported as statistics on this issue... and making a decision based on the numbers alone.... .. a talented statistician can take the very same numbers collected during a study or survey and use them to prove two opposite side of the same point at the same time...... ....even the statisticians themselves call statistics the devils favorite tool of manipulation.....
make decisions based on sound medical knowledge ....and in the absence of that, then your own common sense combined with an awareness of your own physical health, and the health of those around you.. .. erring on the side of caution for good measure.... .
i tend to err on the extreme side of caution... .but that;s just me.... .. i will be getting the vaccine as soon as my doctor clears me for it... it will probably be the pfizer vaccine as that the is one she recommends.. and it is also one of the 2 that did not involve stem cells in it;s research or development... the other being the moderna vaccine... ..
but that being said... and just to clarify... even though i do support the idea of mask mandates when people are out in public and around other people... and though i also support social distancing guidance for restaurants and businesses...... i do not believe anybody should be required to take this vaccine if they don;t want to.... ....being stuck with a needle and injected with a chemical/anti-viral compound is very different from being asked to wear a mask for the safety of those around you... and to keep your distance from people you don;t know and are not in the same household with..... ... .. ..
when you strip away all the political guff and objections .... and set the conspiracy theories aside.... .. vaccines in and of themselves, are not prohibited by scripture.. ...and contrary to what the tin foil hat wearers say, vaccines are not the mark of the beast........ ...... ...
and a mask... for all practical purposes ... is just another piece of clothing.... not that much different from other articles of clothing people are required.. by law ..to wear for both the health and sanitation of a country and also simply for public decency...... .... but that doesn;t mean i believe small children should be required to wear them.. or that a mask should be strapped onto anyone arbitrarily, at all times... ... ..i believe schools...even public schools... have a right to require masks be worn while in attendance.... ... ..but then i do not believe that anyone... even children.... should be forced to go to public school... or any school for that matter... . school should be for those who want to be there and have the right attitude towards education... .. but that;s another topic for another time too.... ....maybe later