The Fighting Fundamental Forums

Proverbs 24:16. For a righteous man will fall seven times, and rise again: but the ungodly shall be without strength in troubles. 

I don't want to seem callus in what I'm about to write. I'm not. I hurt for the hurting. 

However, there are reasons we help the hurting. 

There is a ton of truth to Proverbs 24:16. Often, the perpetually "down trodden" just can't be helped. They can't. I posted a comment on a friend of minds posts on facebook today about this very thing. He was quoting some guy that was bashing the church for not being active enough in their community. He was basically saying the the "church" needed to get out and help people. If they did, then everything would be all right. 

All I said was.....

"if that were true, Jesus wouldn't have been crucified."

Well. Needless to say. My "friend" deleted my comment. 

Its true. Most people don't want to truly be helped. Jesus tried to help this world. They didn't want what came along with that help. There is no such thing as helping someone without the expectation of that person.... or persons.... being changed. If our sole reason for helping the ungodly is to ease our own conscience of their suffering....

Then we've FAILED.....

What you think? 

i have worked with ministries to the homeless and victims of domestic violence for many years now.... and also still go out on my own to help and take food to individuals i know about who live on the street.... .... there are a lot of things we try to do for them including everything from telling them the gospel message to taking them food and clothing.... ...( things baptists criticize as a social gospel...)  ......... and we also offer advice on many different things they can do to help themselves......  ... we are often met with resistance on that last part...... and if not open resistance then many will just nod and smile and thanks us for helping them then go on doing what they have been doing all along.............

i would love to see every one of them get off the street and begin living a more healthy and productive life ... but i don;t see it as my failure if they don;t....... .... for many of these people so much has been taken away from them that the freedom to make their own decisions is literally the only thing they have left..... ..... and they are not willing to give it up easily.... even if it means only taking someone elses advice..... . ...... sometimes a street person ..once saved.... will change and do what it takes to get off the street..... and i have even seen them start going to church and begin reaching out to other homeless that are like they use to be....... we rejoice over that when it happens....... but i don;t necessarily count those cases as our victories any more than i count the others as our defeats........ ..... 

only God can do the work required to change that person.... ... all we can do is show compassion as God commanded..... and continue to show compassion even if we are not aware of any difference it might be making........ for many of the people who live on the streets.... especially the worst of the worst..... ... what we do for them is the only compassion they are ever shown....... and though it might not make an immediate recognizable difference in them...... i believe that one day it will........ there are many reasons people take to the streets and become what we call homeless and destitute..... some really are disabled to the point that helping themselves do better seems to be an insurmountable task...... ..... 

and if it had not been for compassion from others that they might have seen as small or even wasted on me at the time.... but which i remembered later when a time to make a decision came.... i might have ended up homeless on the streets myself....... but i would not have lasted long out there...... ... the average lifespan for people once they have lost all hope and take to the streets is only about 3 years if something or someone doesn;t intervene...... that;s one of the thoughts that keeps me working to help them... plus the knowledge it could still be me in their position some day in the future with a just a few changes in circumstances.... ..... 

(05-26-2016, 07:04 PM)aleshanee Wrote: [ -> ]i have worked with ministries to the homeless and victims of domestic violence for many years now.... and also still go out on my own to help and take food to individuals i know about who live on the street.... .... there are a lot of things we try to do for them including everything from telling them the gospel message to taking them food and clothing.... ...( things baptists criticize as a social gospel...)  ......... and we also offer advice on many different things they can do to help themselves......  ... we are often met with resistance on that last part...... and if not open resistance then many will just nod and smile and thanks us for helping them then go on doing what they have been doing all along.............

i would love to see every one of them get off the street and begin living a more healthy and productive life ... but i don;t see it as my failure if they don;t....... .... for many of these people so much has been taken away from them that the freedom to make their own decisions is literally the only thing they have left..... ..... and they are not willing to give it up easily.... even if it means only taking someone elses advice..... . ...... sometimes a street person ..once saved.... will change and do what it takes to get off the street..... and i have even seen them start going to church and begin reaching out to other homeless that are like they use to be....... we rejoice over that when it happens....... but i don;t necessarily count those cases as our victories any more than i count the others as our defeats........ ..... 

only God can do the work required to change that person.... ... all we can do is show compassion as God commanded..... and continue to show compassion even if we are not aware of any difference it might be making........ for many of the people who live on the streets.... especially the worst of the worst..... ... what we do for them is the only compassion they are ever shown....... and though it might not make an immediate recognizable difference in them...... i believe that one day it will........ there are many reasons people take to the streets and become what we call homeless and destitute..... some really are disabled to the point that helping themselves do better seems to be an insurmountable task...... ..... 

and if it had not been for compassion from others that they might have seen as small or even wasted on me at the time.... but which i remembered later when a time to make a decision came.... i might have ended up homeless on the streets myself....... but i would not have lasted long out there...... ... the average lifespan for people once they have lost all hope and take to the streets is only about 3 years if something or someone doesn;t intervene...... that;s one of the thoughts that keeps me working to help them... plus the knowledge it could still be me in their position some day in the future with a just a few changes in circumstances.... ..... 

Thanks for sharing your experience. Its a great benefit to all. 

I think you're doing a great job and I believe you see things for what they are. No matter our desires, we should always see things for what they are. Just because a person doesn't respond doesn't mean we should immediately stop helping. On the same hand, the fact they don't respond after endless attempts to help, is often a sign of that person's position in this life. Not saying its that way all the time. Its not. I've meet what I believe are truly saved people that just wanted to get OUT of that life. People so broken, only Eternity held any hope. Contrary to what some people think, Paul never said there wasn't hope in this life. He simply said "if we have hope... ONLY... in this life". Some people have just lost hope in this life. Some of them, rightfully so. That's why I try not to judge the broken. Yet, I know most people just don't want any spiritual help. Then again, most people just don't how to share the Gospel effectively. 

I'm truly convinced, that this world is so very tired of hearing the Gospel of "Self". 

It reminds me of the singer Sai. Not that I don't think she's a good singer. She has a nice voice. Yet, she claims she doesn't like publicity and fame. That's why see doesn't want anyone to see her face. I know better, if she really didn't care....... she'd sing in a black box without any accompanying dance number.......

Rant off....

(05-27-2016, 07:20 PM)aleshanee Wrote: [ -> ]there are a lot of people homeless on the street who are mentally ill or disabled..... their families left them on the street because they either could not care for them any longer or just didn;t want to deal with them any more........ i have come across literally hundreds like that over the years......  their life expectancy on the streets is often shorter than for those who choose to live out there...... so we try to get them into shelters quickly if at all possible... before something tragic happens to them...... ... homeless families with children are another group we see as a high priority...... ..... most of them are local people born and raised in hawaii..... ....... but many of the single and often most mentally ill homeless are people from the u.s. mainland...... who only a short time ago might have been wandering the streets in some mainland city .... and making a nuisance of themselves there.... before the police department arrested them... threatened to jail them for vagrancy... but offered them a one way plane ticket to anywhere far away that they wanted to go instead..... ....... ..... and what is the favorite designation for people in such a predicament who have just been offered a choice?............ hawaii of course.......   

That's sad.... Truly said...

Is there really not that many opportunities for these people to get help and to eventually, be able to take care of themselves?

(05-27-2016, 07:26 PM)praise_yeshua Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-27-2016, 07:20 PM)aleshanee Wrote: [ -> ]there are a lot of people homeless on the street who are mentally ill or disabled..... their families left them on the street because they either could not care for them any longer or just didn;t want to deal with them any more........ i have come across literally hundreds like that over the years......  their life expectancy on the streets is often shorter than for those who choose to live out there...... so we try to get them into shelters quickly if at all possible... before something tragic happens to them...... ... homeless families with children are another group we see as a high priority...... ..... most of them are local people born and raised in hawaii..... ....... but many of the single and often most mentally ill homeless are people from the u.s. mainland...... who only a short time ago might have been wandering the streets in some mainland city .... and making a nuisance of themselves there.... before the police department arrested them... threatened to jail them for vagrancy... but offered them a one way plane ticket to anywhere far away that they wanted to go instead..... ....... ..... and what is the favorite designation for people in such a predicament who have just been offered a choice?............ hawaii of course.......   

That's sad.... Truly said...

Is there really not that many opportunities for these people to get help and to eventually, be able to take care of themselves?

in many cases no....... ... you can;t be locked up or forcefully hospitalized simply for being mentally ill alone...... (though i am sure there are people out there somewhere who know me and wish that were not the case)..... .... you have to be presenting an immediate danger to yourself or others..... ..beyond that it;s all a matter of choice..... and like i posted above for many of these people the freedom to make their own decisions is the only thing they have left........ .. they won;t give it up even it means they will suffer hardship for it....... 

for many things would be much better if they were on medications....... but it;s not always as simple as just getting them what they need...... ..... insurance won;t cover what most of them really need........ it doesn;t cover what i need either........it doesn;t even come close....... i am fortunate to have a family with the means to make up the difference..... but other people don;t..... and some people actually do try to take care of themselves yet are thwarted in their efforts at every turn.......... i ask a homeless man not long ago why he wasn;t taking the medications he had been prescribed.... and he told me the security guards at the pharmacy wouldn;t let him in the store... so i offered to go pick his meds up for him.... but when i got there they wouldn;t let me do it because it was something he had to personally sign for...... ... 

so when i told the pharmacist about the guards out front of the building he said the store had been ripped off several times by homeless guys that walked into the store to shoplift and it could be that the guy i was talking about matched the description..... he also added that if homeless people loiter on the property they can be issued a no trespass order by police prohibiting them from coming onto the property for one year....... .... if he had ever been arrested on the property for loitering then that could be why security denied him access..... ..... so i asked the pharmacist how this guy was supposed to pick up his medications and he told me the guy needs to go back to his doctor and make other arrangements for his meds to be delivered to him or to get them some other way.... ......... then he told me to move on coz he had other customers to tend to.......... ..... 

i never got the chance to tell the pharmacist the man can;t just walk into his doctors office.. he has to make appointments there too and sometimes wait for days to get help...... and then in most cases all the doctor will do is call the prescription into some other pharmacy which might treat him the same way.......... but in just those few minutes i became so angry and frustrated that i not only understood why the homeless man had given up, but i was also on the verge of losing my temper and doing something that would have gotten me trespassed from the store as well.......