praise_yeshua > 03-11-2017, 07:08 PM
aleshanee > 03-11-2017, 10:40 PM
praise_yeshua > 03-12-2017, 11:54 PM
lnf > 03-18-2017, 09:47 PM
(03-11-2017, 10:40 PM)aleshanee Wrote: i agree..... and i also get tired of hearing people say "unless you totally forget about the offense... and agree to return your relationship with the offender to what it once was.... then you have not really forgiven...." ... ..these are the same kinds of people who claim a pastor turned pedophile should be forgiven and allowed to pastor a church again if he apologizes... ... just as if nothing had ever happened... .... .. i wonder if they would feel the same way about allowing an apologetic convicted embezler to manage their financial accounts.... or if they would give a person convicted of identity theft and extortion.. but who apologized.... power of attorney over their personal estate.... ....Excellent! Forgiveness does not equate to restored fellowship, nor does it equate to restored trust. What it does mean is that you won't recount to anyone and everyone who will listen how that person wronged you, especially when finishing up with the phrase, "but I have forgiven them". LOL
the truest and most simple definition of forgiveness is simply not seeking redress or payment for a debt you are owed.... not seeking compensation for your loss.... or not seeking revenge against the person who hurt you....... .... but it says nothing of forgetting or putting that person who did the wrong in a position to do it again..... ... protecting oneself from a former perpetrator does not mean you have not forgiven that person.... it simply means you have grown wise to his ways and are now taking action that will hopefully protect both of you..... you from being injured again by him.... and him from being tempted to do wrong again.... .....
and the freedom you gain in that act of forgiveness is that you now expect nothing from that other person.... there is nothing you believe he owes you..... and you give freedom to him by telling him that.... so he does not have to walk around believing he owes you a debt..... though he may still believe he owes you... if he is a just and honest person and truly repentant..... but you have given him the freedom not to either way .....
in many circumstances returning that same person.. once forgiven... to his former position could... and probably would... be taken as license to commit that same offense again.... and i see nothing in scripture which commands us to do that.... but i do see 2 things in what Jesus told peter about forgiving his brother 7 x 70 times..... i see Jesus saying peter should never expect payment or compensation from his brother for any wrong he thinks was done to him... no matter how many times he has done it........ but i also see Him telling peter that if you are unwise enough to put your brother in a postion to do you wrong 7 x 70 times then yes, it is your duty to forgive him every time he fails you.....
aleshanee > 03-22-2017, 06:55 AM
(03-18-2017, 09:47 PM)lnf Wrote: Excellent! Forgiveness does not equate to restored fellowship, nor does it equate to restored trust. What it does mean is that you won't recount to anyone and everyone who will listen how that person wronged you, especially when finishing up with the phrase, "but I have forgiven them". LOL
......... it;s almost difficult to fathom.........
lnf > 03-23-2017, 01:09 AM
(03-22-2017, 06:55 AM)aleshanee Wrote:My reply above was too flippant and short, nor did it take into account injuries that are most grievous and permanent.(03-18-2017, 09:47 PM)lnf Wrote: Excellent! Forgiveness does not equate to restored fellowship, nor does it equate to restored trust. What it does mean is that you won't recount to anyone and everyone who will listen how that person wronged you, especially when finishing up with the phrase, "but I have forgiven them". LOL
very true.... and i don;t see a reason to even bring something up if you really did forgive the person who did it to you.... if they sincerely apologized..... and if you were able to recover well enough from what ever it was..... ...... ...
but then there are times when something done to you might have been so bad.... and so injurious.... that it left irreparable damage..... damage that permanently affects the way you live the rest of your life..... things that other people can;t help but notice.... and which makes them start asking sensitive and sometimes very personal questions....... ........ and at times like that it;s very hard not to end up telling people about what happened..... unless you want to isolate yourself from everybody and hide for the rest of your life...... it can be tempting to live that way sometimes...... .... but if you do choose live with the rest of the world to answer people that ask you questions....... and depending on the depth of the injury and the pain that thing which happened might still be causing you.... it might be very hard, in spite of your best efforts to explain it otherwise... to avoid sounding bitter about it all..... even if you are not..... ......... but i have learned that good people will understand that.... will accept you for what you are as well as for what you are not....... and will not hold any of it against you.....
but then there are also times when other people who don;t really want to know what happened at all, will start asking questions..... .... and when you begin to tell them they will demand that you stop..... and they will tell you something like "they can;t stand to hear it".... or they don;t believe it.... or it;s a story "too terrible for their sensitive ears"..... ....but in the very course of refusing to hear the reasons for your situation they will still make certain to let you know in every possible way just how much your situation bothers them.....how it makes them feel uncomfortable....... and how they wish you would change... make it stop... or just go away.......... they make it clear that they wish to hold everything about you that bothers them against you....... ... that can cause the forgiven and long ago extinguished resentment towards the person who originally hurt you to rekindle all over again...... it can also cause you to you to redirect all that newly resurrected resentment towards this new person who is asking personal questions but refusing to understand or consider the answers...........
people in that second group love to preach proud and arrogant sermons about those who wallow in bitterness and are unable to forgive..... .. they relentlessly berate others they see as bitter and unforgiving.. all the while trying to convince the rest of the world they are superior christians because they have endured what they see as the most painful of all hardships... yet suffered no permanent or lasting effects from it...... and certainly have no bitterness..... yet if you listen to them long enough you will begin to notice just how bitter their lamentations against the bitterness they see in others comes across..... and i figured out long ago that the reason some of these people have such an arrogant and misguided attitude towards forgiveness is that nothing in their idyllic lives has ever happened to them worth forgiving..... .....and in a weird ironic way that has left them strangely bitter............... it;s almost difficult to fathom.........