Independent Fundamental Baptist faith as practiced here.
This is the situation as I see it. Take it for what its worth because all I can do is pray for anyone who is working in this type of situation. Dismiss it out of hand at your peril.
Rick Ullum September 15, 2009 at 1:19pm
I started out with Thayer as I had with previous ministers, offering my advice in areas I had expertise in to assist the church with (security / computers). I soon found out with Thayer that he had to appear to know everything regardless of whether he did or not. I suggested a computer setup we used at the police department that was both secure and cost effective (using interest of an over payment of utilities at MBT to pay the bill). I was told he mentioned to someone he didn’t understand what I was talking about and yet in spite of that went with Mrs. Crowley’s limited expertise for a recommendation (a common practice of his). I then made some recommendations for security changes and problems with illegal searches done at MCS but had to go through Mrs. Crowley to get them done.
My first problem with Thayer was the manner he handled the Carroll County boys basketball game where he suspended the entire team without reviewing video evidence of the incident (a serious legal issue in and of itself). I suggested that only the involved players be suspended and it be done in a staggered manner so the team as a whole that weren’t guilty, as well as uninvolved innocent third parties didn’t suffer. He chose to suspend the whole team which affected Mansfield Temple Christian’s Christmas Holiday Tournament (they had to find a team at the last minute for this important fund raiser of theirs) and as a result they haven’t invited MCS back.
In reference to Thayer he runs the church and its ministries in a strict legalistic (non-scriptural) manner and has removed numerous people who don’t follow his dictates. He also has run other people out of the church because if you don’t follow these rules he excludes you from participating in any church ministries (Linda has left the church after his wife spread the baseless rumor she was a pedophile and he removed the boys basketball coach for not holding his hand over his heart during the national anthem).
He then places people in positions that are loyal to him that aren’t qualified to work in those positions other than because they are loyal to him (two pastors went without computers for several months due to the youth he assigned to work on them wasn’t competent to fix the problem. I checked the problem and it was a simple network configuration issue that I fixed in half an hour). Regardless of the importance of loyalty, the person has to first be competent to work on the task he is assigned. Due to his displeasure with my questioning his methods (and suggesting his son was a suspect in the vandalism of the church, college, and school) he wouldn’t allow me to coach baseball beyond the first season in spite of the fact he didn’t have enough volunteers to help. Hurting the kids and coach participating to in deference to satisfying his hate. When I attempted to discuss this with him his only response, in a sermon was, he doesn’t have to forgive people and they could go to someone else for grace. I ask why when is constantly asking help and are offering we aren't asked and mention several situations I then volunteered for and he never responded to my offer. I then advised if he had cause to ask us to leave the church please explain what it was. Again he had no response.
I am in possession of letter from one of his sons passed on to Christina describing his profane, physically aggressive outbursts with them, threatening them with a baseball bat.
I am aware that you and the Crowley’s didn’t have the best relationship but the cause of the problems at Massillon Baptist College goes beyond the Crowley’s and start and end with accreditation. If the college were accredited it would have a positive impact on enrollment. Rev. Crowley advised he was working a getting a masters program approved. It has been a significant asset to enrollment at MCS that they are accredited in spite of the quality of academics and they unorthodox disciplinary practices negatively effecting enrollment. The following thread (
http://www.fundamentalforums.com/other-s...ge-11.html) from unbiased sources illustrates that clearly, since I’m sure you know we are fond of the Crowley’s and I want to provide an objective viewpoint (they told us he was fired when he challenged his wife’s termination) the opinion of the academic situation at MBC. Thayer’s idea to change MBC to a missions college is a serious mistake. Limiting the offerings at your school has little chance to positively impact enrollment but if it needs to be done they a popular degree would be the one you would want to offer. From what I’ve learned pastoral preaching and not missions would be the logical choice as having more interest.
I had no preconceived notions and didn't know Thayer to start with other than to offer what I could to help at MBT and with their ministries and expected Thayer to act in a manner similar to other ministers at that church I had dealt with. I knew something was wrong to begin with when he wouldn't let his kids swim at our house before he knew us. I was even nominated for deacon in spite of him.
The situations at MCS are objective descriptions of those situations that I can document if you wish, and again illustrate gross mismanagement of those ministries. It is clear that his lack of qualifications and experience in handling the diverse ministries at the MBT are more than he can handle and the worst problem is he will not accept any advice in areas he has no qualifications to handle.
I believe MBT and its ministries can, with the right leadership, grow to be what it once was. I pray someone can convince Thayer of either the proper direction to lead the church in or that his call is somewhere else in the ministry.
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Rick Ullum September 16, 2009 at 2:00pm
The general impression i get is that after the circumstances surrounding Jacob’s and Emery’s ministries they had a hard time getting applicants for the senior pastors job. I talked to Mr. Price and the people of the church are led around by the nose by the church administration. After Emery left I ask why weren’t the people of the church informed so whoever was at fault the problem got corrected. His response was more or less the deacons and trustees would handle it (regardless of the fact that three of them allegedly were the cause of Rev. Emery leaving). So you see why in the position we are now with Thayer.
Mrs. Hartline supposedly had a hand in recommending that Mrs. Crowley be removed so she could take the job (in spite of her lacking the minimum academic and experience credentials for the job). Thayer is basically run by James Farriss the head trustee. When Farriss’ daughter Melinda was coaching the girls varsity basketball team she sent the girls some sexually explicit and profane messages on My Space. When I brought this to Thayers’ attention I had to get back to him a month later to see what he had done. He was going to make her apologize and that was it. I asked him if Farriss was running him and he wouldn’t respond. We had to go to other church administrators to have a more appropriate penalty be imposed (although we didn’t ask for it, she was removed as coach). I believe this as much as anything caused my problems with Thayer / Farriss.
My only problem with the MBT is the legalistic manner in which they run the church and its ministries. I have asked them many times to just back off a little with many things they do that aren’t scriptural and are counterproductive to attracting members and students. The response is the same, they aren’t going to give an inch, in what seems an almost cultic following of their legalistic beliefs. Just this week Christina’s science teacher (and MCS can't afford to lose any teachers) was call in by Hartline for her language and the way she dressed. I challenged them on the scriptural basis of minced words because they enforce their use even though they are in the majority of cases not used in the context (in place of profanity) the school is interpreting they are. This type of action by the MBT and its ministries instead of instilling proper values and beliefs only labels those involved as fanatics and causes people to stay away from MBT, MBC, & MCS.
Regardless of your opinion of the actions taken against the Crowleys, Thayer first of all shouldn’t have lied about what he did and he should have given them the courtesy of finishing the year and participating in the formal ceremonies for not only the school, church, and college (a final sermon wasn’t even permitted) but he should have recognized their service to those ministries (Linda helped organize a retirement dinner held in a church members home). The hateful manner in which he handled that matter was not only a continuation of his previous conduct but reflected poorly on himself and the church administration.
Finally, if Rev. Cummons would have set up the by-laws and those replacing him in much the same manner in which Rev. Falwell did at Liberty he could have saved some of the predictable problems that occurred. His mistake was believing that he could find a minister competent to take his position that would be accepted by the church under by-laws which require a wise minister that can wisely handle the authority it gives him. A number of ministers with expertise in the various church ministries run by the trustees probably would have had a better chance for success unless a experienced well-known minister was available to take the position. I'm sure even Liberty with hand picked replacements who were in place years before Rev. Falwell's passing aren't problem free. I'm certain no such transition planning was done at MBT. I'm not trying to be a know-it-all but when you don't have to reinvent the wheel there are blueprints out there to see what to do and not to when these changes are done.