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• RE: Money and Ministry

  lnf > 08-12-2017, 08:41 PM

  I laughed at your Gideon reference.  
  
  As far as preaching the tithe, how do YOU know I’m not avoiding it because it is controversial?  LOL  I’ve been around the fighting fundamentals long enough to know that the very mention of the word “tithe” might just get your head ripped off!
  
  Where did I say that I believe in Old Testament tithing?  I said that I GIVE 10% of my income AND MORE as Holy Spirit leads me.  
  
  Old Testament tithing was a tax based on the fruits of the field.  That is why Jesus told the Pharisees that they tithed their mint, etc.  And the chastisement was based on their lack of practicing judgment (I believe He was referencing their lack of mercy!) and the love of God.
  
  The New Testament does not mandate tithing, Old Testament or otherwise.  It speaks of generous giving, even sacrificial giving, as opposed to giving only from one’s abundance.  
  
  I agree with 2Cor 9:7.  Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
  
  New Testament giving is about the condition of the heart, no matter what the amount happens to be.  We should be led by Holy Spirit in our giving, not compelled for any other reason.  I think Jesus’ comments on the widow’s two mites describes New Testament giving in a nutshell. 
  
  As for the storehouse, I imagine you don’t agree with taking offerings for the support of the ministry.  I’m referencing the expenses associated with a church building and paid staff, including a pastor.  I am NOT referencing expenses associated with the spreading of the Gospel or offering alms to the poor.  I doubt you are against that sort of giving.   
  
  And I’ll go ahead and do what I said I would not.    I do not agree with the preaching of the tithe.  And in case you were wondering, I have spoken to my Pastor about it.  In our church, at least, it actually has a negative effect on offerings.  Like I said, it’s a controversial subject!

• RE: Money and Ministry

  praise_yeshua > 08-14-2017, 02:15 PM

  (08-12-2017, 08:41 PM)lnf Wrote: I laughed at your Gideon reference.  
  
  As far as preaching the tithe, how do YOU know I’m not avoiding it because it is controversial?  LOL  I’ve been around the fighting fundamentals long enough to know that the very mention of the word “tithe” might just get your head ripped off!

  
  OK. I didn't expect you to take that approach. I'm not trying to read your mind. I just didn't take you for someone that wouldn't address a subject because of the backlash it might bring.
  
  

  Quote:Where did I say that I believe in Old Testament tithing?  I said that I GIVE 10% of my income AND MORE as Holy Spirit leads me.  

  
  You mentioned "10 percent". I assumed it was based on the "tithe". Just where did you get the "10 percent" idea? I understand the MORE. I'm just dealing with the "10 percent" you mentioned.
  
  

  Quote:Old Testament tithing was a tax based on the fruits of the field.  That is why Jesus told the Pharisees that they tithed their mint, etc.  And the chastisement was based on their lack of practicing judgment (I believe He was referencing their lack of mercy!) and the love of God.

  
  Not entirely. It was more complicated than that. The first gift of the tithe went to The King of Salem. A very real King that ruled Salem. The city that would eventually become Jerusalem. However, it was primarily a "tax" of sorts to support the temporary priesthood in Aaron. The Levites
  
  

  Quote:The New Testament does not mandate tithing, Old Testament or otherwise.  It speaks of generous giving, even sacrificial giving, as opposed to giving only from one’s abundance.  
  
  I agree with 2Cor 9:7.  Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
  
  New Testament giving is about the condition of the heart, no matter what the amount happens to be.  We should be led by Holy Spirit in our giving, not compelled for any other reason.  I think Jesus’ comments on the widow’s two mites describes New Testament giving in a nutshell. 

  
  Giving is about the heart.... and others. Just like Christ gave freely to us.
  
  The widow's mite is often misunderstood. She had two coins that equaled the smallest denomination of Roman coinage at the time. We don't know how that ranked against her duty of the "tithe". However, its doubtful she could have given less. It wasn't so much about what she gave............. as it was about what the wealthy gave.
  
  There are several contrasts in this story as it relates to NT guidance in giving. I won't go into all the details but one is particularly interesting and ignored in the average "local assembly".
  
  Do you have any "widow's indeed" in your local church? Did you know that the NT teaches that "honor" is to be given to the "widow indeed" in like manner to leaders?
  
  

  Quote:As for the storehouse, I imagine you don’t agree with taking offerings for the support of the ministry.  I’m referencing the expenses associated with a church building and paid staff, including a pastor.  I am NOT referencing expenses associated with the spreading of the Gospel or offering alms to the poor.  I doubt you are against that sort of giving.   

  
  I'm for them if its done right and its not something that should be exclusively organized into one "pot" at the local temple and distributed by local leadership at their discretion.
  
  

  Quote:And I’ll go ahead and do what I said I would not.    I do not agree with the preaching of the tithe.  And in case you were wondering, I have spoken to my Pastor about it.  In our church, at least, it actually has a negative effect on offerings.  Like I said, it’s a controversial subject!

  
  To be clear. I'm not for any "local pot" of giving that is distributed at the discretion of some local leadership. The "tithe" is just part of the issue. Its not all of it. Believers should be free to give directly to anyone in need. Believers should be free to give anywhere they feel lead to give. There is no teaching in the NT of a "local pot" of giving that is in turn managed by local leadership.
  
  I'm glad you don't believe in the teaching of the tithe. I've found that most reasonable people that have fully studied the subject don't support the teaching of the tithe.
  
  However, I don't find that it actual makes its way into the teaching of the local assembly. People say they don't believe in it.... but still use it as a "base" to teach giving. That in and of itself it just as WRONG as the teaching of the tithe. There are people that shouldn't be giving "all their living" to support some local assemblies demands to please God. There are also people that shouldn't be giving 10 percent or even less.....
  
  I'm just trying to get the truth out.... People don't have to listen to these teachings that don't line up with the Scriptures. It doesn't matter if their local "leadership" says otherwise. Its better to listen to God than it is to listen to men.
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