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I'm wrong but
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I'm wrong but
praise_yeshua > 08-04-2016, 03:27 PM
we're all sinners.
Have you heard anyone say that? I can't remember saying it but I've sure acted/felt like it.
The Scriptures talk of "Godly sorrow".
2Co 7:9 Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing.
2Co 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
I don't believe Godly Sorrow makes such excuses. I just don't believe it does.
I have....
Godly Sorrow doesn't.
2Co 7:11 For see what earnestness this godly grief has produced in you, but also what eagerness to clear yourselves, what indignation, what fear, what longing, what zeal,
Does truly being sorry.... Change us? -
RE: I'm wrong but
aleshanee > 07-19-2019, 08:30 PM
(08-04-2016, 03:27 PM)praise_yeshua Wrote: we're all sinners.
Have you heard anyone say that? I can't remember saying it but I've sure acted/felt like it.
The Scriptures talk of "Godly sorrow".
2Co 7:9 Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing.
2Co 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
I don't believe Godly Sorrow makes such excuses. I just don't believe it does.
I have....
Godly Sorrow doesn't.
2Co 7:11 For see what earnestness this godly grief has produced in you, but also what eagerness to clear yourselves, what indignation, what fear, what longing, what zeal,
Does truly being sorry.... Change us?
it is possible i didn;t completely understand your point here... .. and that is partly why i never responded to this when it was first posted... .. ... i still might not completely understand it..... but i will proceed at this point as if i do... ... if i am wrong please correct me.... ...... and if i am right then this might anger some people... .. no doubt many will disagree with me.... . but here goes...... .... ......
short answer?....... yes....being truly sorry changes us...... ... if being sorry doesn;t change us.... or lead to some action on our part to make right what we may have done...... . then what is the point of being sorry in the first place?..... what is it worth?.....is our sorrow really true?..... .does it mean anything?..... .... ... .. ....to me it is no different that saying we care about someone or something while doing nothing...... .. what good does that kind of care do?..... ...none at all........ ...
note that 2nd corintians 7;9 says... - "that ye sorrowed to repentance" - ... .....most people think sorrow is little more than an emotion.....but true repentance is an action.... not an emotion... . .... .. and that is what Godly sorrow... and even Godly care or love does... .. it leads us to an action....... ...
in the contemporary world we have been taught that writing a song... or putting on a concert... or even buying a cd from the concert, or posting a video online.... that might be dedicated to some social or charitable issue is the same thing as showing we care about it... .. and in most peoples minds that is enough.... .... but is it really?....... .... Godly sorrow... just like Godly love and Godly care.... should lead us to doing something that corrects a wrong or improves the life of someone else..... .... otherwise there is little that is "godly" about it... ... it just another self centered emotion... .. mulled over for own benefit... or detriment..... but the object of our sorrow... love .. or care... will be none the wiser or better for it...... ....
so simply saying we are all sinners and leaving it at that... is a cop out that tries to make an excuse for sin.... ... and scripture teaches there is no excuse for sin...... only redemption through the blood of Christ. .... who expects us to follow up on that realization that we are all sinners with repentance.... .. otherwise our "sorrow" is like the sorrow of the world.... which scripture said in 2nd corinthian 7;10 "worketh death.."... . -
RE: I'm wrong but
admin > 07-22-2019, 08:22 PM
(07-19-2019, 08:30 PM)aleshanee Wrote:
(08-04-2016, 03:27 PM)praise_yeshua Wrote: we're all sinners.
Have you heard anyone say that? I can't remember saying it but I've sure acted/felt like it.
The Scriptures talk of "Godly sorrow".
2Co 7:9 Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing.
2Co 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
I don't believe Godly Sorrow makes such excuses. I just don't believe it does.
I have....
Godly Sorrow doesn't.
2Co 7:11 For see what earnestness this godly grief has produced in you, but also what eagerness to clear yourselves, what indignation, what fear, what longing, what zeal,
Does truly being sorry.... Change us?
it is possible i didn;t completely understand your point here... .. and that is partly why i never responded to this when it was first posted... .. ... i still might not completely understand it..... but i will proceed at this point as if i do... ... if i am wrong please correct me.... ...... and if i am right then this might anger some people... .. no doubt many will disagree with me.... . but here goes...... .... ......
short answer?....... yes....being truly sorry changes us...... ... if being sorry doesn;t change us.... or lead to some action on our part to make right what we may have done...... . then what is the point of being sorry in the first place?..... what is it worth?.....is our sorrow really true?..... .does it mean anything?..... .... ... .. ....to me it is no different that saying we care about someone or something while doing nothing...... .. what good does that kind of care do?..... ...none at all........ ...
note that 2nd corintians 7;9 says... - "that ye sorrowed to repentance" - ... .....most people think sorrow is little more than an emotion.....but true repentance is an action.... not an emotion... . .... .. and that is what Godly sorrow... and even Godly care or love does... .. it leads us to an action....... ...
in the contemporary world we have been taught that writing a song... or putting on a concert... or even buying a cd from the concert, or posting a video online.... that might be dedicated to some social or charitable issue is the same thing as showing we care about it... .. and in most peoples minds that is enough.... .... but is it really?....... .... Godly sorrow... just like Godly love and Godly care.... should lead us to doing something that corrects a wrong or improves the life of someone else..... .... otherwise there is little that is "godly" about it... ... it just another self centered emotion... .. mulled over for own benefit... or detriment..... but the object of our sorrow... love .. or care... will be none the wiser or better for it...... ....
so simply saying we are all sinners and leaving it at that... is a cop out that tries to make an excuse for sin.... ... and scripture teaches there is no excuse for sin...... only redemption through the blood of Christ. .... who expects us to follow up on that realization that we are all sinners with repentance.... .. otherwise our "sorrow" is like the sorrow of the world.... which scripture said in 2nd corinthian 7;10 "worketh death.."... .
Studying Scripture is a challenge of perspectives. Most anyone can take a snippet of what the Scriptures say and make most anything out of it. Not saying you're doing this. Just making the point.
Repentance is largely misunderstood in the Scriptures. There is a reason you don't see the apostle Paul running around demanding everyone "repent" over and over again. Which is what largely many supposed "ministers" do these days.
TRUE and I mean TRUE repentance is so much more than being sorry for getting caught. Or being sorry for making a mistake. Or being sorry for even hurting someone else because it is hurting YOU.
TRUE Repentance is granted. It is an approval from God of the conditions and attitude of the one repenting. God's mind has to change toward those repenting. The begins the formation of a every lasting bond in covenant relationship between the sinner and the Redeemer wherein they AGREE.
Many people are sorry for what they did. Many people are sorry for who they hurt... IF... they love the one they hurt. Much of this comes from human nature or even the natural man itself.
Being sorrowful to GOD realizing just WHO... HE is... and WHAT is involved. That is an entirely different story. One that so seldom takes place.
When you AGREE with God. There is no room for appealing to the overall condition of all men. It all about US/YOU individually. The entire world fades away and it is ALL about two beings. The singular sinner and the singular God.
That is what I meant by "I'm sorry but we are all sinners"..... being a misunderstanding of repentance.
Repentance is the last step in redemption. You must understand some things.... believe some things before one can ever get to TRUE repentance.
I hope that helps you better understand what I wrote. I sometimes confuse myself...
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RE: I'm wrong but
aleshanee > 07-23-2019, 05:48 PM
(07-22-2019, 08:22 PM)admin Wrote: Studying Scripture is a challenge of perspectives. Most anyone can take a snippet of what the Scriptures say and make most anything out of it. Not saying you're doing this. Just making the point.
Repentance is largely misunderstood in the Scriptures. There is a reason you don't see the apostle Paul running around demanding everyone "repent" over and over again. Which is what largely many supposed "ministers" do these days.
TRUE and I mean TRUE repentance is so much more than being sorry for getting caught. Or being sorry for making a mistake. Or being sorry for even hurting someone else because it is hurting YOU.
TRUE Repentance is granted. It is an approval from God of the conditions and attitude of the one repenting. God's mind has to change toward those repenting. The begins the formation of a every lasting bond in covenant relationship between the sinner and the Redeemer wherein they AGREE.
Many people are sorry for what they did. Many people are sorry for who they hurt... IF... they love the one they hurt. Much of this comes from human nature or even the natural man itself.
Being sorrowful to GOD realizing just WHO... HE is... and WHAT is involved. That is an entirely different story. One that so seldom takes place.
When you AGREE with God. There is no room for appealing to the overall condition of all men. It all about US/YOU individually. The entire world fades away and it is ALL about two beings. The singular sinner and the singular God.
That is what I meant by "I'm sorry but we are all sinners"..... being a misunderstanding of repentance.
Repentance is the last step in redemption. You must understand some things.... believe some things before one can ever get to TRUE repentance.
I hope that helps you better understand what I wrote. I sometimes confuse myself...
thank you for the clarification.... .. i think i understand what you were saying better..... ..but i;m confused all the time... for no reason at all most of it..... so it;s nobody fault really....
i absolutely agree that using snippets of scripture is faulty.... even dangerous.... .. that;s why i am not a fan of the medieval monk who sliced up the scriptures into chapter and verse.... and who many fundamentalists treat as if his actions were inspired.... ......because while a single sentence or thought contained within a verse is definitely a snippet.... a verse, as organized the way most people read and refer to scripture today, is also a snippet... of a chapter.... and even of a much larger book.... ..it;s how the bible gets taken out of context daily in churches.. prayer groups, and worship circles all over christendom.....
i also agree that repentance is vastly misunderstood as it is explained in the scriptures.. ... and i believe the confusion is largely caused... or perhaps exacerbated.... by the tendency for most people to study a few verses in a particular chapter of a book.... and then stop where a verse stops... without examining both the scriputres before the verse they chose to study, and what was written after.... ...
but.... as you know.... i tend to get carried away and write novels when answering messages.... and i didn;t want to do that here.... . so i limited my reply to using only the 3 verses in 2nd corinthians you refered to in the op......and i understand you doing that too coz you probably didn;t want to write a novel either.... ... ...but nontheless i believe those 3 verses desribe a very true yet very basic concept of repentance very well... .. . and that is..... .sorrow.... .even the expression of sorrow.., for a sin that doesn;t result in repentance... .. is probably not Godly sorrow.... .....it;s a useless emotion, or expression of emotion, that has no effect...... a belch in the wind, if you will pardon my crude analogy..... (i was raised by rednecks... it could have been worse).....
...... .... ....but without the action or works of repentance there is no evidence that the sorrow over sin was genuine..... ..not saying i know it absolutely wasn;t.... . coz only God knows the hearts of men..... ... but as for the rest of us.... ...as paul was explaining in 2nd corinthians... evidence goes a long way..... ..... 