praise_yeshua > 12-10-2019, 07:30 PM
aleshanee > 12-11-2019, 06:05 PM
(12-10-2019, 07:30 PM)praise_yeshua Wrote: If you've every truly had an intimate relationship with God, you know it. Its more than just quoting Scripture in an attempt to make yourself feel better about your condition.
When divine SEED is passed to an individual in the New Birth, that NEW LIFE knows when it began. I'm not saying you have to know the exact second but you know the event.
The only REAL proof of salvation is the confirmation of "sons" mentioned
1Jn 3:13 Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you.
1Jn 3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.
1Jn 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
praise_yeshua > 12-12-2019, 01:33 PM
(12-11-2019, 06:05 PM)aleshanee Wrote:(12-10-2019, 07:30 PM)praise_yeshua Wrote: If you've every truly had an intimate relationship with God, you know it. Its more than just quoting Scripture in an attempt to make yourself feel better about your condition.
When divine SEED is passed to an individual in the New Birth, that NEW LIFE knows when it began. I'm not saying you have to know the exact second but you know the event.
The only REAL proof of salvation is the confirmation of "sons" mentioned
1Jn 3:13 Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you.
1Jn 3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.
1Jn 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
.
i remember the moment my new life in Christ began..... ...though there have been a few professing christians i have encountered along the way... that heard me tell about it.... and proceeded to tell me all the reasons they believed it might not have been genuine.... ...some of them definitely did not love me... in fact i can state very confidently i believe they hated me.... ...were they themselves not saved?.... or could their refusal to accept my salvation experience simply be a defense in order to justify their hatred of a fellow christian?.... ....easier to continue hating someone if you believe they are not really a fellow christian who you would otherwise be commanded to love...... ..but was there some other reason?........ what i;m saying is i know i have been hated... to the point of people wishing me dead.... and these people were professing christians that many other christians looked up to and literally swore by..... ......... at the same time i have had other professing christians claim they loved me whose actions indicated otherwise..... ....ironically both the haters and the professed lovers could quote verses in scripture they claimed supported them..... ........ ..it brings up many questions.... but no clear answers.... .. ....only God and the individual exhibiting either the hatred or showing love know the truth of it..... ....
aleshanee > 12-13-2019, 06:29 PM
(12-12-2019, 01:33 PM)praise_yeshua Wrote:(12-11-2019, 06:05 PM)aleshanee Wrote:(12-10-2019, 07:30 PM)praise_yeshua Wrote: If you've every truly had an intimate relationship with God, you know it. Its more than just quoting Scripture in an attempt to make yourself feel better about your condition.
When divine SEED is passed to an individual in the New Birth, that NEW LIFE knows when it began. I'm not saying you have to know the exact second but you know the event.
The only REAL proof of salvation is the confirmation of "sons" mentioned
1Jn 3:13 Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you.
1Jn 3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.
1Jn 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
.
i remember the moment my new life in Christ began..... ...though there have been a few professing christians i have encountered along the way... that heard me tell about it.... and proceeded to tell me all the reasons they believed it might not have been genuine.... ...some of them definitely did not love me... in fact i can state very confidently i believe they hated me.... ...were they themselves not saved?.... or could their refusal to accept my salvation experience simply be a defense in order to justify their hatred of a fellow christian?.... ....easier to continue hating someone if you believe they are not really a fellow christian who you would otherwise be commanded to love...... ..but was there some other reason?........ what i;m saying is i know i have been hated... to the point of people wishing me dead.... and these people were professing christians that many other christians looked up to and literally swore by..... ......... at the same time i have had other professing christians claim they loved me whose actions indicated otherwise..... ....ironically both the haters and the professed lovers could quote verses in scripture they claimed supported them..... ........ ..it brings up many questions.... but no clear answers.... .. ....only God and the individual exhibiting either the hatred or showing love know the truth of it..... ....
I've meet so many horrible people in my life. Most of them involved with Christianity to some degree or another.
What you said brought to mind a man I know that has a wonderful testimony of the intimate events surrounding his new life in Christ and he too talks of how people doubted him.....
Yet that same person, NOW..... will approach being "born again" as some rigid repeating of rehearsed lines. His trip down into his theology has ruined that part of him. He even so offended at my challenge to him that he refuses to even talk about it anymore.
I know you love people. I know you do. It is difficult to deal with those who stand so opposed to your clarity of thought and truth. Yet, right there stands what we all were. It is our life struggle.
praise_yeshua > 12-20-2019, 02:14 PM
(12-13-2019, 06:29 PM)aleshanee Wrote:(12-12-2019, 01:33 PM)praise_yeshua Wrote:(12-11-2019, 06:05 PM)aleshanee Wrote:(12-10-2019, 07:30 PM)praise_yeshua Wrote: If you've every truly had an intimate relationship with God, you know it. Its more than just quoting Scripture in an attempt to make yourself feel better about your condition.
When divine SEED is passed to an individual in the New Birth, that NEW LIFE knows when it began. I'm not saying you have to know the exact second but you know the event.
The only REAL proof of salvation is the confirmation of "sons" mentioned
1Jn 3:13 Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you.
1Jn 3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.
1Jn 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
.
i remember the moment my new life in Christ began..... ...though there have been a few professing christians i have encountered along the way... that heard me tell about it.... and proceeded to tell me all the reasons they believed it might not have been genuine.... ...some of them definitely did not love me... in fact i can state very confidently i believe they hated me.... ...were they themselves not saved?.... or could their refusal to accept my salvation experience simply be a defense in order to justify their hatred of a fellow christian?.... ....easier to continue hating someone if you believe they are not really a fellow christian who you would otherwise be commanded to love...... ..but was there some other reason?........ what i;m saying is i know i have been hated... to the point of people wishing me dead.... and these people were professing christians that many other christians looked up to and literally swore by..... ......... at the same time i have had other professing christians claim they loved me whose actions indicated otherwise..... ....ironically both the haters and the professed lovers could quote verses in scripture they claimed supported them..... ........ ..it brings up many questions.... but no clear answers.... .. ....only God and the individual exhibiting either the hatred or showing love know the truth of it..... ....
I've meet so many horrible people in my life. Most of them involved with Christianity to some degree or another.
What you said brought to mind a man I know that has a wonderful testimony of the intimate events surrounding his new life in Christ and he too talks of how people doubted him.....
Yet that same person, NOW..... will approach being "born again" as some rigid repeating of rehearsed lines. His trip down into his theology has ruined that part of him. He even so offended at my challenge to him that he refuses to even talk about it anymore.
I know you love people. I know you do. It is difficult to deal with those who stand so opposed to your clarity of thought and truth. Yet, right there stands what we all were. It is our life struggle.
.
i met someone kinda like that at my former church.... he was always talking about how someone had to be in a certain frame of mind.... what kind of prayer had to be prayed.... what bible versus they had to know in advance.... what kind of internal feeling were necessary... .... and then even how someone was supposed to feel and what sensations they had to experience afterwards....etc.. etc.. to have a real salvation experience.... .. ...he was so obsessed with salvation "proceedure"... that it appeared as if he believed nobody could be saved at all... ..not even himself..... because no matter hard they tried nobody could measure up to all the requirements that had to be met in order to get saved.....
i can see how in certain circles he might have caused a lot of sincere christians to doubt their salvation.... ..but at that particular church he was simply written off as a flake..... ....ironically his sister was the exact opposite of him.... .. she was a tree hugging naturist.. who believed the mythical earth goddess gaia was equal in importance to Christ .... and that the best way to experience God was to be sky clad in the middle of a primeval forest...... ....i looked for her among the teary eyed clinton supporters in the videos of the 2016 election night results... .....i didn;t see her but i know she would have fit right in with them.... ....
i was still a child when i was saved.... .. but i had already seen and experienced evil in some of it;s most hideous forms..... .. and i knew God wanted to deliver me from it..... ..and i didn;t simply recite a prayer or repeat words i was told that day on the bus when a friend explained to me what salvation was all about..... i put my life in God;s hands... completely.... professed faith in Jesus Christ... and opened a communication line through prayer to God that has never closed
but there are some people out there who think that because my symptoms of schizophrenia... hearing voices... hearing other sounds that are not actually there... ..(things they believe are evidence of demon possession.)..... plus many other things i have struggled with my entire life...... did not automatically resolve after i got saved.... that my salvation experience was not real..... ..they love to point to the verses in the bible they believe back up their claims.... ..
ironically these same people accept that seizures... (once also believed to be the result of demon possession)..... are actually caused by a genuine medical conditions.. ..and they accept that because of what they call "empirical evidence proven by sound research"...... ...i tell them one day the empirical evidence concerning schizophrenia and other mental illnesses will be proven through sound research too.... ..and if they bothered to read the medical journals they would see some of it already has been proven.....
but therein lies the problem with the mis-beliefs about salvation many professing christians have..... first of all they neglect prayer....real prayer...... and then they also fail to read... anything... other than their favorite theologians commentaries..... .......and that includes neglecting to read the bible....... ..all of it.... not just the favorite and select portions they think back up what they want to believe.......