The Fighting Fundamental Forums

(12-09-2018, 06:24 PM)praise_yeshua Wrote: [ -> ]Obviously you're relying on what other's have said to make such a claim. Do you really know the Scriptures enough to repeat what they say with confidence?

Isa 42:1  Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles. 

Will you now reconsider? Don't trust what others have told you.

You have a habit of doing that. "You're just following Calvin. You're just relying on what others have said about this or that."

No, it's the Bible. You can cherry pick a verse that calls Jesus the elect, because Jesus IS elect of God. But so are His chosen people called "elect".

Matthew 24:31 "And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other."

Romans 11:7 "What then? What the people of Israel sought so earnestly they did not obtain. The elect among them did, but the others were hardened"

1 Peter 1:1 "Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To God’s elect, exiles scattered throughout the provinces of Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia" -- is Jesus himself exiles scattered throughout various provinces, or are we talking about a chosen people?

Even Angels can be "elect" -- certain chosen Angels.

1 Tim 5:21 "I charge you, in the sight of God and Christ Jesus and the elect angels, to keep these instructions without partiality, and to do nothing out of favoritism."

(12-09-2018, 06:24 PM)praise_yeshua Wrote: [ -> ]I didn't see the name of Jesus mentioned anywhere in the evidence given. The Gospel is preached "In His Name".

You take the verse "no other name" literally? So which name do you need to know? Jesus? Yeshua? Joshua? Emmanuel? No one can be saved outside Jesus, but that doesn't mean you need to know his name.

(12-09-2018, 06:24 PM)praise_yeshua Wrote: [ -> ]I see no reason to believe you actually believe the last sentence. Do you believe pardon is proclained unto all under the heaven?

Yes. And I believe it will be proclaimed again throughout the world by an angel in the end times, just as it says in Revelation:

Revelation 14:6 "Then I saw another angel flying in midair, and he had the eternal gospel to proclaim to those who live on the earth—to every nation, tribe, language and people."

This event in revelation comes just before the end, just as Jesus said when describing the end times:

Matthew 24:14 "And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come."

Jesus wasn't talking about missionaries. He was talking about the angel. The words are almost identical. "whole world as a testimony to nations" == "to every nation, tribe, language and people".

(12-11-2018, 02:52 AM)The Rogue Tomato Wrote: [ -> ]You have a habit of doing that.  "You're just following Calvin.  You're just relying on what others have said about this or that."

No, it's the Bible.  You can cherry pick a verse that calls Jesus the elect, because Jesus IS elect of God.  But so are His chosen people called "elect".

I cherry picked nothing. What you said was contrary to the verse I quoted. I know the verse I quoted because I have actually studied the verse extensively many years ago. I didn't read it from a commentary. I didn't read it from an internet article. I was studying the Scriptures. What you said is the EXACT answer that most any person that holds to the view of election that you hold will give when confronted with the claim I made. I haven't labeled you with any names but you are making predictable arguments based on the comments of others. I don't normally do such. I make my own arguments. I believe you noticed that by now about me.

I have no reason to believe you actually knew the verse BEFORE I mentioned it. Yes. Election involves people. Thus, individuals. However, there is absolutely no indication that a particular person, apart from Jesus Christ, was individually chosen before this world was ever formed. Isa 42 deals with God's choice in Jesus Christ. God's elect. God's choice.

Quote:Matthew 24:31 "And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other."

Romans 11:7 "What then? What the people of Israel sought so earnestly they did not obtain. The elect among them did, but the others were hardened"

1 Peter 1:1 "Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To God’s elect, exiles scattered throughout the provinces of Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia" -- is Jesus himself exiles scattered throughout various provinces, or are we talking about a chosen people?

Even Angels can be "elect" -- certain chosen Angels.

1 Tim 5:21 "I charge you, in the sight of God and Christ Jesus and the elect angels, to keep these instructions without partiality, and to do nothing out of favoritism."

Not one of these verses stands in contrast to anything I have said. There is a RANK that exists in the order of revelation and choices. That RANK is Jesus Christ and then those chosen IN HIM.

Quote:You take the verse "no other name" literally?  So which name do you need to know?  Jesus?  Yeshua?  Joshua?  Emmanuel?  No one can be saved outside Jesus, but that doesn't mean you need to know his name.

Nonsense. Jesus is a derivative name of Greek word meaning Joshua that itself came from ancient Hebrew Yeshua. His Name is known among almost all nations and tongues. It doesn't matter what language but it must be about a specific historical/eternal figure. The Gospel in His name is to be preached. Not the name of another.

Quote:Yes.  And I believe it will be proclaimed again throughout the world by an angel in the end times, just as it says in Revelation:


Revelation 14:6 "Then I saw another angel flying in midair, and he had the eternal gospel to proclaim to those who live on the earth—to every nation, tribe, language and people."

This event in revelation comes just before the end, just as Jesus said when describing the end times:

Matthew 24:14 "And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come."

There is a difference between the English word unto and the word to. Unto is meaningful in that it distinctly ascribes that what is given is meant for them.

Quote:Jesus wasn't talking about missionaries.  He was talking about the angel.  The words are almost identical.  "whole world as a testimony to nations"  == "to every nation, tribe, language and people".

The Gospel was preached to everyone a very long time ago. We are many generations removed from those that heard the Gospel of Jesus Christ through the apostles and the early church.

Tit 2:11  For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, 

Do you really believe that the so called "Great Commission" has been fulfilled yet?

Mat 24:14  And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. 

Jesus never said how long it would be before the end would come. Its just a small indication of God's revelation ending with the Gospel of Jesus Christ or could be that Jesus talking about the end of the Jewish culture as a collective state that took place close the end of the 1st century.