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• Sin and Suffering

  praise_yeshua > 09-15-2016, 08:40 PM

  There once was a time where sin would cause a natural degradation in any person's life. Some may call this the "nature work of sin". 
  
  Sin, once caused a separation between individuals and families to the point you had a "prodigal son" moment. The "prodigal" would waste everything he had and no one would help him. 
  
  The same can not be said now. The nanny state of the government, various community outreaches and even over zealous Christian ministries....
  
  sometimes act as enablers in the support of sin. 
  
  If we can sin without natural consequence...... then what motive does a person have to ultimately abandon his choice of sin?

• RE: Sin and Suffering

  The Rogue Tomato > 09-16-2016, 03:50 PM

  Real Christians don't need to rely on consequences to motivate them to abandon a choice of sin. The Spirit motivates them.
  
  Of course, when a real Christian does sin and suffers the consequences, that is still an important lesson.

• RE: Sin and Suffering

  praise_yeshua > 09-16-2016, 06:18 PM

  (09-16-2016, 03:50 PM)The Rogue Tomato Wrote: Real Christians don't need to rely on consequences to motivate them to abandon a choice of sin.  The Spirit motivates them.  
  
  Of course, when a real Christian does sin and suffers the consequences, that is still an important lesson.

  What happens when the person refuses to listen to the Spirit?
  When they don't heed the voice of God, there is ALSO a natural process that comes about through the progressive nature of sinful actions. Smoke turn into fire, fires grow until they consume. If people keep "putting out the fire" that comes from sinful actions......
  They why would anyone change?

• RE: Sin and Suffering

  The Rogue Tomato > 09-16-2016, 10:10 PM

  (09-16-2016, 06:18 PM)praise_yeshua Wrote:

  (09-16-2016, 03:50 PM)The Rogue Tomato Wrote: Real Christians don't need to rely on consequences to motivate them to abandon a choice of sin.  The Spirit motivates them.  
  
  Of course, when a real Christian does sin and suffers the consequences, that is still an important lesson.

  What happens when the person refuses to listen to the Spirit?
  When they don't heed the voice of God, there is ALSO a natural process that comes about through the progressive nature of sinful actions. Smoke turn into fire, fires grow until they consume. If people keep "putting out the fire" that comes from sinful actions......
  They why would anyone change?

  
  Seriously, I'm not sure what it means to refuse to listen to the Spirit.  Speaking only for myself, the Spirit doesn't TELL me to do anything.  It changed my heart and gave me new motivations.  
  
  That doesn't mean I never sin, but I don't sin as in "the Spirit is telling me to do X, but I refuse to do that.  I'm going to do Y instead."  My sin is generally sin of ignorance, a fit of selfishness, or an inappropriate reaction.  I almost always eventually realize what I was doing and apologize. I wish I could say "always", but I'm sure there are times when I failed to do that and just don't know it.
  
  In other words, I am unaware that I'm sinning, later recognize the consequences, and apologize, and try not to fall into that again.  That's what I meant by consequences being a good lesson.

• RE: Sin and Suffering

  praise_yeshua > 09-17-2016, 04:51 PM

  (09-16-2016, 10:10 PM)The Rogue Tomato Wrote:

  (09-16-2016, 06:18 PM)praise_yeshua Wrote:

  (09-16-2016, 03:50 PM)The Rogue Tomato Wrote: Real Christians don't need to rely on consequences to motivate them to abandon a choice of sin.  The Spirit motivates them.  
  
  Of course, when a real Christian does sin and suffers the consequences, that is still an important lesson.

  What happens when the person refuses to listen to the Spirit?
  When they don't heed the voice of God, there is ALSO a natural process that comes about through the progressive nature of sinful actions. Smoke turn into fire, fires grow until they consume. If people keep "putting out the fire" that comes from sinful actions......
  They why would anyone change?

  
  Seriously, I'm not sure what it means to refuse to listen to the Spirit.  Speaking only for myself, the Spirit doesn't TELL me to do anything.  It changed my heart and gave me new motivations.  
  
  That doesn't mean I never sin, but I don't sin as in "the Spirit is telling me to do X, but I refuse to do that.  I'm going to do Y instead."  My sin is generally sin of ignorance, a fit of selfishness, or an inappropriate reaction.  I almost always eventually realize what I was doing and apologize. I wish I could say "always", but I'm sure there are times when I failed to do that and just don't know it.
  
  In other words, I am unaware that I'm sinning, later recognize the consequences, and apologize, and try not to fall into that again.  That's what I meant by consequences being a good lesson.

  
  You mention sin of ignorance.....
  
  Have you ever stopped to consider the Spirit of God leads you into all truth?
  
  How can it possibly be true that the best solution..... includes not knowing to do something until after you've made the mistake?
  
  The peace of God leads us. God's gentle voice that calm us so we can know we're doing the right thing. 
  
  Not choice in this is about an analytical decision based on our best understanding of all variable given the current environment. 
  
  I can post several verses that establish that the Spirit of God works in us to lead, not drive us, into proper choices.
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