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anti-vax and never maskers......

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• anti-vax and never maskers......

• anti-vax and never maskers......

  aleshanee > 10-18-2021, 07:36 PM

  as if anyone in the fundamentalist...or fff world... cares to read what i have to say.... ...i am going to take a chance and say it anyway..... ..i believe in vaccines..... ...i believe in the general effectiveness of the covid-19 vaccines... ..and not just because president trump supports them... and also not just because i live in a medical household of which everyone is vaccinated.... and also not simply because i have a degree in a medical biology myself either.... ...i believe in vaccines because of what i have learned through studying the way diseases... specifically pandemic diseases... have affected various groups of people in the past.... how inoculation through either vaccines or other natural means protected them.... and by seeing what happened to various populations who remained un-vaccinated.. or otherwise unprotected..... ......
  
  yes there are risks involved with taking a vaccine... there are risks involved with taking any medication.....  which is why... while i support vaccines... ..and i also support an employers right and a schools right to require vaccinations for employees... staff... and students....... .... i do not support blanket vaccine mandates for every citizen of a country laid down by governments.... ..
  
  the exception to that would be anyone wishing to immigrate to or otherwise enter the country. .... first of all i believe all entry into our country should be done legally or not at all.... . and i also believe anyone entering should be required to show proof of vaccination against not only covid19 but a host of other diseases and contagious health problems as well..... that includes citizens of the u.s. that wish to exit the country and then re-enter... .... ....but i realize those are just my opinions
  
  now as far as masks go.... . i do fully support mask mandates... ordered by government according to law as prescribed in an emergency or epidemic situation.... for anyone going out in public where they will be in close proximity of others... ... and then even after a government relaxes such a mandate i support the right of employers... private businesses... and schools to require masks be worn by employees... staff members.. students and also customers coming into their business... ...... ....anti-maskers like to say it;s a matter of their personal freedom and personal rights not to wear a mask... and i agree....... ..but it;s also a matter of the rights of a business owner, or administrator of a school to require masks be worn by anyone wishing to come in to that school, or business, and make use of it;s services.... ..... ...we all have a right not to wear a mask if we don;t want to... and that includes not wearing a mask out in public when we are all by ourselves...... . but we don;t have the right to force other people to deal with us face to face if we are not wearing a mask. .. .....
  
  masks work....  they do not always work perfectly and eliminate all risks.... but they are effective in reducing risks.... those in the medical field have known this since the late 1800s.... (which is why fauci should have not only been fired but also prosecuted for the way he lied and misguided the public on this issue... as well as many other issues).......... ... i wear either a medical grade n95 or it;s non-medical equivalent every time i am out of my house... and i have done so since the day this pandemic started - regardless of the many conflicting opinions fauci gave on it.... ...everyone in the household does.... we keep a steady supply of new ones coming in by mail and we change out them out frequently as they become worn.. ....  .......and while i don;t yell at people not wearing a mask or try to shame them out in public if they don;t take the mask issue as seriously as i do......... i do make every effort to avoid them... ... i realize that them not wearing a mask might just be them exercising their rights the way they see them...... . but wearing a mask and avoiding those who don;t is me exercising my rights to keep myself safe from unnecessary exposure....
  
  https://www.fightingfundamentalforums.co...d-554.html
  
  but anyway......that;s just my opinions... and i;ll leave it there so this doesn;t become another term paper..... .but i really do want to hear what others think about this subject... what their opinions are... .. and i would like to hear what they base those thoughts and opinions on..... .....from what i have seen those both on the left and the right of the political sides of this issue have allowed themselves to make knee jerk decisions about it, and have taken damaging and even dangerous stances simply because of what the other side said... and trying to be as counter to the other side as possible... ..... ..these kinds of things should be decided on careful study and research... not political knee jerk reactions.... ... but again... that could be just my opinion too, and nothing more....... .......what are yours?....

• RE: anti-vax and never maskers......

  praise_yeshua > 10-20-2021, 01:43 AM

  Well said. I'll share my opinion.
  
  First, Covid is very real to those who have died because of it. However, I don't believe the government has done much of anything to actually prevent deaths and I don't know if they should. "Lock downs" don't work after a virus is "past containment". Michael T. Osterholm is one of the best I've seen with dealing with the issue. He seems to be very honest with the information. I'll use some of his recommendations.
  
  Masks,
  
  First. I hate them. I can't breath with them on. I have a touch of asthma. My oxygen saturation runs about 94 on a good day. I wear them around people that expect it. I don't wear a N95 mask. Michael T. Osterholm says a "face cloth" masks gives you 5 extra minutes or less of protection in the presence of Covid. They believe that gives you about 20 minutes of protection. 15 minutes without a mask, 20 minutes with a cloth mask. A well fitted N95 mask can you get 25 hours.
  
  Michael T. Osterholm best protection recommendation is not to be indoors with anyone except for those you plan to shelter with. Even outdoors stay away from areas that concentrate the virus like parks/etc.... but who wants to live like this?
  
  That is honest fact based information. I hate it, but it is real. I can accept this type of information no matter who it comes from. The government has been lying for so long they can't keep their lie straight anymore.
  
  Vaccines,
  
  I'm a prolific reader. I have been a large portion of my life. Not just "books" but just a consumer of "information". I enjoy learning. Consuming knowledge. One thing I believe is common with Covid is many people have died from blood clots. In fact, there is new research out detailing that a daily aspirin may help prevent many Covid deaths. Not that everyone should take an aspirin tomorrow. It might make some issues worse. The vaccines are causing issues with clot in some people. They are also causing issues with some teenage boys with heart inflammation. Covid death are still mostly in older less healthy people. Average age of death among Covid victims I believe is still above the average life expectancy in the US. Though I have known 2 people that have died from Covid. Both in their 50s and 60s. One had it twice and died the second time after being vaccinated. He had issues with heart failure before Covid. I've been vaccinated myself with the P vaccine since May. I'm a candidate for the boaster. Not sure if I'll take it or not. Bottom line, Most will be fine with the vaccine but I wouldn't make anyone under 18 take them. Then again. I wouldn't force them on anyone. I disagree with you on the fact of businesses forcing vaccines because they have the option of weekly testing. Which I believe is probably just as effective given the face cloth mask. Even with vaccines and mask mandates anyone can still spread it. Though I believe Delta is being driven by children. The vaccines don't prevent anyone from spreading the disease. I'm also against forcing those who have had Covid from getting a vaccine shot. Though I have known several people that have had Covid twice and never had a vaccine. I know those who have had vaccines that got Covid. I have a coworker right now that is under self quarantine because had it. I was with him for an extend amount of time the day before he got symptoms.
  
  What I do personally.
  
  I have taken aspirin for years. I also began taking famotidine or Pepcid soon after Covid hit the first time. I wear a cloth mask but I hate it and I don't believe it helps much at all. I ask the Lord help me and my family every day. Not just from Covid but from anything that might come our way.
  
  Having said all this, death is a very real part of life. Covid deaths are exaggerated to a degree. How much. I do not know. I know there are deaths counted as "Covid Death" without having ever been tested for Covid. This should be the minimum requirement for listing a death as a "Covid Death".
  
  This has become way too political. On one network there are those who are for government mandates claiming Powell's death wasn't due to Covid even though he died while having Covid. Which is how Covid deaths are counted. On another network you have those claiming vaccines don't work because Powell was vaccinated.
  
  There truth is somewhere in the middle and that is where I'm trying to stay on this. Best thing a person can do is make sure they know Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. Start there and pray. Get vaccinated if you're over 30. Consider it if you're over 21. Wear as protective a mask as you can tolerate. Keep it clean or change it. Stop carrying dirty masks around everywhere. They can make you sick over time too.
  
  Just my penny.

• RE: anti-vax and never maskers......

  aleshanee > 10-20-2021, 06:33 AM

  you are correct...  a dirty mask is in many ways worse than no mask at all..... ...bacteria begins to grow inside a mask after the second day it;s worn... and then over time dust particles and microbes also collect on the outside...... ...it;s kinda expensive to be buying new ones on a regular basis the way we do... .. but it;s something we went ahead and planned into our budget as a necessary item.... .we have pretty much lived a life of modified quarantine since this thing started....we decided and agreed on a lot of house rules none of us like... but which we all continue to follow both inside and out of the house just for the sake of safety.... .. but it will be nice when all this is finally over with... and we can go back to normal....... but i say that as a hope and prayer it will happen... not a plan or something i;m holding my breath for..... in the end all we as Christians can do is trust God and remain faithful.... while using the gifts of medical knowledge He gave us wisely, and for His glory... not carelessly tossing them away in pursuit of our own...
  
  when i said that i believed private businesses and other institutions had the right to require vaccines i should have clarified that having the right to do something doesn;t always mean it;s wise to do it..... ....nor does it mean you are required to do it always just because you have the right..... ..i;m looking at that point as something businesses would have to evaluate in relation to potential revenue loss in the case of a massive epidemic among employees vrsus production loss as a result of mass terminations / resignations. .... but i believe they should have that right as the owner of a business, or person responsible for keeping it viable... ..
  
  plus also potential lawsuits in the case of restaurants and the like where customers could get infected with covid then blame it on the establishment.... .not that an un-vaccinated employee there would have been the cause but lawyers would file it that way non-the-less... ......once the ban on lawsuits related to covid is lifted... (if it ever is).... i think we will be seeing a lot of lawsuits of that nature..... ..
  
  we will never really know if the first lockdown of 2020 would have worked or not... it seemed to be working after they got sensible about some of the stupid things they were doing at first, and changed them..... and the reopening with precautions and social distancing that was to continue while the virus was still out there, seemed to be working too.. ..but then came the riots and the summer of burn loot and murder (BLM).... that i firmly believe was the real and original super spreader event none of the liberals want to talk about... once that happened there was no stopping spread of the virus..
  
  in the very beginning of this they said that incubation periods for this virus could vary between a matter of days to several weeks, depending on the individual... then they forgot about all that and went political with fauci claiming that since nobody reported getting sick within a few days of taking part in an antifa blm riot it must mean those gatherings were safe.... i posted a lot of my opinions about that and more democrat insanity last year....
  
  https://www.fightingfundamentalforums.co...d-552.html
  
  and it;s true.. though the left ignores it now... .... that most of the people dying of covid are dying at ages beyond the normal human life span.... and almost all of them have co-morbidity or other serious illnesses, that would likely kill them anyway even without covid.. ...after the initial 3 week lockdown vulnerable people should have been allowed.. encouraged, and instructed on how to keep themselves safe while the rest of the country opened back up, instead of throwing everybody back out there together all at the same time.... all that and the initial refusal to look into how this thing really started caused great loss of life in my opinion... ..loss of life that people like fauci are responsible for....
  
  from what people i know who have had covid and survived, say - makes me certain covid attacks the nervous system in a way flu and pneumonia cases do not.... the loss of taste and smell that often becomes permanent is just one of the nervous system problems i have heard them talk about.... ..and you could be right about blood clots playing a major role in the fatalities... clots have been a factor in mortality with many deadly diseases, and clots can also cause nervous system impairment.... .... ....  but the way truth, honest research and even established facts in medicine are being censored, while lies and propaganda are forced down the public's throat in regards to this thing.. destroys any progress we could make in medicine by having gone through this and surviving it... .. and makes it likely that even if a talented researcher makes break though discoveries which could benefit human health in the future, his or her research will be disregarded in favor of a political narrative....  
  
  over the last few centuries medical knowledge has progressed so rapidly that we look back at practices that were standards of care just 50 years ago and think of them as barbaric.... ... ..i and think future generations.... maybe a few centuries from now... when and if the word population ever returns to level headed thoughts... will view the way this generation has politicized medicine... played around with gain of function experiments...  then used the covid pandemic for political gain and declare the 21st century as the beginning of a dark age in medicine.... when our forward progress stopped and the medical world started moving backwards....

• RE: anti-vax and never maskers......

  aleshanee > 10-20-2021, 11:54 PM

  i meant to add to this.... (but the post got too long).... that you are right about aspirin too.... ... aspirin is probably one of the most underrated yet unfairly demonized medicines out there... ... yes... it can be dangerous to take it on a daily basis... especially if you have certain medical predispositions... and people who regularly consume alcohol should probably never take it.... ..but otherwise... if you take the right precautions to protect your stomach lining, and monitor yourself for bleeding problems it should not be a problem.... .it;s one of those drugs where the benefits can outweigh risks for some people....  but then some doctors will say the jury is still out on that one.... ..i would never take regularly unless my doctor was well informed... ..i know someone who is taking the high potent aspirin derivative celebrex daily....  and his doctor told him to take prilosec daily to protect his stomach and g.i. tract... he hasn;t had any problems..
  
  and since google does not have any censorship rights here i can say this..... i also believe in the effectiveness of the drug villified for no other reason than president trump was in favor of it.... . hydroxychloriquine... i read the reports of the studies done on it that declared it ineffective and in my opinion not a single one of them was done correctly or fairly... ....i know someone ...not personally but through other aquaintances ... who had covid early on when the pandemic first started..... he said he thought he was going t die from it until his doctor gave him hydroxychloriquine.... . he credits it with saving his life.... ...but like all drugs it not for everyone... some people really should be treated with other methods.... ..
  
  that;s the biggest problem with the democrats approach to this whole thing.... ..they are treating everything from medicines to vaccine therapy like it;s one size fits all...... ... and nothing in medicine is one size fits all.....  .... but as long as they have their grand wizard fauci telling them what they want to hear for political purposes... they will worship him like their new idol... and crack down hard on anybody who doesn;t go along with them.... ...
  
  we have to be smart and protect ourselves.... whether it means doing something the democrats support or not.. .. we gotta remember we are not doing it for them.... it;s for our own survival....
  
  and truthfully... i believe most people currently rejecting the vaccine, probably would have agreed to it if the powers that be hadn;t come off from the very start with insults, threats, and an in our face - draconian vaccine mandate... .. ....bidens' angry tirade ..i;m losing patience with you!... do it or else!.... approach....... turned massive numbers of americans off.. ..... they could have use a better approach... or even taken a page from tron..... but it;s too late now... for many the damage is done....
  
  

• RE: anti-vax and never maskers......

  BrotherTony > 10-28-2021, 05:01 PM

  I can only go by what I've experienced, along with what I have learned about the virus and vaccines. I'm NOT anti-vaccine, but I AM anti-covid vaccines, at least until they are properly tested for a longer period of time and the side-effects are well documented, as well as the efficacy. I'm not going to submit to being a part of the "test-group" as the CDC put it last year. 
  That being said, I have several underlying health challenges; bilateral Meniere's disease, asthma, COPD, myocarditis (from the 2x my wife and I have had Covid), and others. We had the virus in December of 2019 before they knew what it was, and then we experienced the Delta variant in August/September of this year. We weren't vaccinated, but we survived...obviously. We've had friends and family members who have passed away either from the virus or with the virus as a contributing factor. Some of them were vaccinated, others weren't. 
  With the survival rate of 99+%, I don't believe there is a need for vaccinations, at least not for those who don't wish to get it. If others feel that they need it to feel safe, I say go ahead. I'm not against you getting it. I AM, however, saying that I don't believe people ought to expect us to assimilate for "the greater good." This is a very socialistic approach, and it's not necessary. This virus has been weaponized politically, and it's a very divisive subject. I've seen it tearing families and churches apart, which is totally avoidable if both sides will listen to one another and not try to push their beliefs on each other. 
  End of statement.

• RE: anti-vax and never maskers......

  aleshanee > 10-28-2021, 09:12 PM

  first of all i thank God you survived this thing....  and especially after having it twice... no one can argue with your experience on it.... .....
  
  and i agree with you for the most part on the vaccine.... ...something like a vaccine, or any medication, should never be mandated by a government for the sake of assimilation.. ..we are talking about something that goes into the body and can permanently alter it... it should be a personal choice whether or not we want to take one..... .
  
  here in hawaii they have made it mandatory for all businesses... even private businesses.. to require valid vaccine cards of all customers if they do business with them in person... .. .. and i believe that is wrong too..... ..if a private business wants to require it;s customers and employees be vaccinated, that is their right and their privilege... ...customers have a choice of whether or not to do business with an establishment that either requires vaccines or not... and employees have a choice of whether or not they want to work there.... ....the business owner is the one taking the bulk of the risks...... . but government should stay out of it.... but.. like i said before... those are just my opinions
  
  but on the other issue.... . what is your opinion on mask mandates?.... ...
  
  we have had mask mandates here in hawaii since early 2020, for any adult going out in public and coming in close proximity of others., (inside all public places and closer than 10 feet outdoors).. .. ..i agree with that for the reasons i stated in previous posts...  plus the fact that if a government can require other areas of the body be covered in public... (for the sake of public health and safety).... why could it not also require a face covering since that is the major avenue by which diseases are spread.... ..specifically respiratory diseases.... and for all practically purposes a mask is just another piece of clothing... ..not something that invades the body and can permanently alter it.... ....
  
  you are absolutely right about the way this thing has been politicized.... ..had politics stayed out of it from both sides, we might have had this pandemic under control long ago....  

• RE: anti-vax and never maskers......

  BrotherTony > 10-28-2021, 10:01 PM

  (10-28-2021, 09:12 PM)aleshanee Wrote: first of all i thank God you survived this thing....  and especially after having it twice... no one can argue with your experience on it.... .....
  
  and i agree with you for the most part on the vaccine.... ...something like a vaccine, or any medication, should never be mandated by a government for the sake of assimilation.. ..we are talking about something that goes into the body and can permanently alter it... it should be a personal choice whether or not we want to take one..... .
  
  here in hawaii they have made it mandatory for all businesses... even private businesses.. to require valid vaccine cards of all customers if they do business with them in person... ..  .. and i believe that is wrong too..... ..if a private business wants to require it;s customers and employees be vaccinated, that is their right and their privilege...  ...customers have a choice of whether or not to do business with an establishment that either requires vaccines or not... and employees have a choice of whether or not they want to work there.... ....the business owner is the one taking the bulk of the risks...... . but government should stay out of it.... but.. like i said before... those are just my opinions
  
  but on the other issue.... . what is your opinion on mask mandates?.... ...
  
  we have had mask mandates here in hawaii since early 2020, for any adult going out in public and coming in close proximity of others., (inside all public places and closer than 10 feet outdoors).. .. ..i agree with that for the reasons i stated in previous posts...  plus the fact that if a government can require other areas of the body be covered in public... (for the sake of public health and safety).... why could it not also require a face covering since that is the major avenue by which diseases are spread.... ..specifically respiratory diseases.... and for all practically purposes a mask is just another piece of clothing... ..not something that invades the body and can permanently alter it.... ....
  
  you are absolutely right about the way this thing has been politicized.... ..had politics stayed out of it from both sides, we might have had this pandemic under control long ago....  

  
  On mask mandates, I am against them. I did wear a mask for the first week, but, having asthma and COPD, I had a hard enough time breathing. I wore a mask when I went to Vanderbilt for me ear specialists appointment because it was what they REQUESTED...though they DID enforce it. Because they were nice about it and requested it first instead of shoving a mask in my face, I wore it. Treat me with respect, and I'll reciprocate. Otherwise, I haven't worn masks. I don't like them, and it's not really stopping anything. The virus can enter through the ears into the and even get through the masks unless it's a surgical mask. I wore one when I had a Dr.'s appt two months ago, right after I had had Covid, because I didn't want the doctor to feel uncomfortable. But, I did get a LOT of flack from the PA I saw there because I wasn't vaccinated. He tried to browbeat me, having an attitude that was unacceptable of someone whose supposed to work with people. He got it right back and two times worse. I threatened to file a complaint against his license and that of the doctor as well for letting him talk to people like that. I heard him talking worse to a LADY in the room next door who had brought her son in for his examination. The child was only four and didn't need to hear that kind of junk!

• RE: anti-vax and never maskers......

  aleshanee > 10-29-2021, 11:25 PM

  (10-28-2021, 10:01 PM)BrotherTony Wrote:  
  
  On mask mandates, I am against them. I did wear a mask for the first week, but, having asthma and COPD, I had a hard enough time breathing. I wore a mask when I went to Vanderbilt for me ear specialists appointment because it was what they REQUESTED...though they DID enforce it. Because they were nice about it and requested it first instead of shoving a mask in my face, I wore it. Treat me with respect, and I'll reciprocate. Otherwise, I haven't worn masks. I don't like them, and it's not really stopping anything. The virus can enter through the ears into the and even get through the masks unless it's a surgical mask. I wore one when I had a Dr.'s appt two months ago, right after I had had Covid, because I didn't want the doctor to feel uncomfortable. But, I did get a LOT of flack from the PA I saw there because I wasn't vaccinated. He tried to browbeat me, having an attitude that was unacceptable of someone whose supposed to work with people. He got it right back and two times worse. I threatened to file a complaint against his license and that of the doctor as well for letting him talk to people like that. I heard him talking worse to a LADY in the room next door who had brought her son in for his examination. The child was only four and didn't need to hear that kind of junk!

  
  i understand... .truth be told i hate masks too... ...and i realize that even though i;m vaccinated and wear a mask every time i leave the house i could still contract covid.. ...it;s not impossible... for me it;s about erring on the extreme side of caution, and then if i do catch it anyway i;ll at least know i did all i could to avoid it.... but i don;t try to shame those who have a different view on it all.. ...i did however have one person in waikiki try to make me and others i was with feel silly for wearing masks.... ...it turns out he was a tourist from the mainland.. ..it;s very rare to see local people here not wearing masks.... and it;s usually because they just forgot to put it on....
  
  unfortunately there are a lot of doctors out there with bad attitudes and horrendous bedside manners.... nurses have always tended to be the nice side of the dr/nurse pair......  but even they have started to snarl at patients more often now too.. ..many of them blame it on a shortage of personnel and the fact they get over worked.... .. as if obamas changes to the national health care systems didn;t make it bad enough... the pandemic only made it worse... .....a few of our household members are in the medical field and they are being badly overworked right now... i know it upsets them to see others in their field treating patients badly.... .all medical personnel are taught in their training that there is no excuse for rudeness.... but some of them need to be reminded of that from time to time....

• RE: anti-vax and never maskers......

  BrotherTony > 10-30-2021, 06:13 AM

  (10-29-2021, 11:25 PM)aleshanee Wrote:

  (10-28-2021, 10:01 PM)BrotherTony Wrote:  
  
  On mask mandates, I am against them. I did wear a mask for the first week, but, having asthma and COPD, I had a hard enough time breathing. I wore a mask when I went to Vanderbilt for me ear specialists appointment because it was what they REQUESTED...though they DID enforce it. Because they were nice about it and requested it first instead of shoving a mask in my face, I wore it. Treat me with respect, and I'll reciprocate. Otherwise, I haven't worn masks. I don't like them, and it's not really stopping anything. The virus can enter through the ears into the and even get through the masks unless it's a surgical mask. I wore one when I had a Dr.'s appt two months ago, right after I had had Covid, because I didn't want the doctor to feel uncomfortable. But, I did get a LOT of flack from the PA I saw there because I wasn't vaccinated. He tried to browbeat me, having an attitude that was unacceptable of someone whose supposed to work with people. He got it right back and two times worse. I threatened to file a complaint against his license and that of the doctor as well for letting him talk to people like that. I heard him talking worse to a LADY in the room next door who had brought her son in for his examination. The child was only four and didn't need to hear that kind of junk!

  
  i understand... .truth be told i hate masks too... ...and i realize that even though i;m vaccinated and wear a mask every time i leave the house i could still contract covid.. ...it;s not impossible... for me it;s about erring on the extreme side of caution, and then if i do catch it anyway i;ll at least know i did all i could to avoid it.... but i don;t try to shame those who have a different view on it all.. ...i did however have one person in waikiki try to make me and others i was with feel silly for wearing maskIs.... ...it turns out he was a tourist from the mainland.. ..it;s very rare to see local people here not wearing masks.... and it;s usually because they just forgot to put it on....
  
  unfortunately there are a lot of doctors out there with bad attitudes and horrendous bedside manners.... nurses have always tended to be the nice side of the dr/nurse pair......  but even they have started to snarl at patients more often now too.. ..many of them blame it on a shortage of personnel and the fact they get over worked.... .. as if obamas changes to the national health care systems didn;t make it bad enough... the pandemic only made it worse...  .....a few of our household members are in the medical field and they are being badly overworked right now... i know it upsets them to see others in their field treating patients badly.... .all medical personnel are taught in their training that there is no excuse for rudeness.... but some of them need to be reminded of that from time to time....
  
  My wife and I have several members of our family who are nurses. Only a few of them have been vaccinated. They have read a lot of the reports from both the liberal and conservative sides of the spectrum and have made their choices. I never try to shame people for getting the shot or wearing masks. If that's what makes them feel safe, that's what they need to do. I don't trust the "science," as it's not really proven yet and hasn't had enough time to become "established" as the CDC and the NIH would have us believe. The ever changing narrative has made me warry of anything this administration is pushing in the way of medical advice. I don't think that will ever change.

• RE: anti-vax and never maskers......

  aleshanee > 11-23-2021, 01:12 AM

  unfortunately politics and the medical community made an unholy alliance and became entangled with each other several decades ago.... ... the corona virus issue is only the most recent medical phenomenon that medical "leadership" ...(if you can call it that)... checks in with politicians first before going to the medical books when looking for answers or making an "official" diagnosis..... 
  
  3 decades ago medical directors giving seminars and over seeing conferences told their medical students and attendees that they needed to be on the right political side of issue like gun control and abortion..... as if anything other than the official leftist and liberal view of those issues equated to medical malpractice.....  ..now the list of medical and health issues where politics takes center stage is much longer....and in virtually every other aspect of science and research the story is the same.... look at how scientists have divorced themselves from reason on the climate change issue.... ....
  
  a friend..who is a sierra clubber with a masters degree in science... that i use to argue about climate change with... once admitted to me i was right when i proved to her the much ranted about hole in the ozone layer over the polar regions every winter were most likely always there.... and according to earth physics and global dynamics a hole in the ozone should always be present any time either polar region is experencing it;s winter....  according to what it is that makes atmospheric ozone there was really no reason to expect ozone to be at either polar region in the winter in the first place......  
  
  she said she knew i was right.... and even admitted the scientists using it as a political tool knew they were lying about it being such an ominous sign... ..... but then added that following and teaching a false science was ok if it led to the powers that be coming to the right conclusions and passing the correct laws....... 
  
  but even so.... the collusion of science and politcs aside.... it is still expedient for us to be smart and make good choices about our own lives irregardless of what either of the 2 say... and whether they thnk we might be doing it because of what they said about it or not.... .let them think whatever they will..... if we make knee jerk reactions to what science or the left wing politicians either one say, just to be in opposition to them as a matter of priniciple.. then we are allowing them to have control over what we do in no less a way than if we followed their advice...
  
  ..  .....i;m not implying anyone on this forum does that... but i do know of some on other forums and other websites who do....they claim we are compromising our principles and showing lack of faith in God if we do things like get vaccinated or take precautions against covid19.... ........to me that;s self destructive...... like refusing to wearing a seat belt or stop at red lights as a matter of principle, just because the government says we are supposed to.....  throwing our common sense away just because the democrats think they can demand we should have some is neither wise nor being faithful... it;s just dumb.... 
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