- Options
- Login
- Register
- Switch to desktop style
Options
Top 10 reasons to leave your "local church"
- Top 10 reasons to leave your "local church"
-
Top 10 reasons to leave your "local church"
praise_yeshua > 08-30-2016, 02:01 PM
I know, I know.....
According to "fundamentalists everywhere".... you should never leave your local church. UNLESS..... you're going to attend their church of choice.
Seriously. In less than 100 years after the death of the apostles, the early church began to disintegrate into the fractured nonsense we have today. Its gradually gotten worse and worse and worse and worse. I honestly don't believe anyone can make a serious case for the local church being in fellowship with God. In fact, if we had any fundamentalists here, I'd love to discuss that one single fact. Is the "local church" in fellowship with God? We can only hope some fundamentalist will join the forum...
Until they do, lets discuss the top ten reasons your should leave your local church. Try to rank them order of importance. I'll start.
1. God isn't there!
Well. God is everywhere. However, that doesn't mean that God approves of the mess the local church is peddling. When I say "peddling". I mean "peddling". More on that later. Simple question. Why should we believe God is "in" the local church???
Please don't throw "where 2 or 3" at this. This verse undermines the very idea of the local church. Those peddling the local church aren't looking for just "two or three members".
2. The local church is full of idols!
I've heard a preacher friend of mine say it for years. I tend to agree with him. I just don't like the way he spins this truth.....
God will allow/ignore many things for a very long time. However, God will not share His glory with anyone or anything. God is jealous. Yep. You read that right. God is jealous. He owns the Church. He possesses the Church. He's put forth a ton and time and effort into the Church. Not to mention the fact that God... is overwhelmingly "IN LOVE" with the Church.
You have admit it. You do. The local church is full of idols. Things that have some semblance of God but are NOT GOD. The local church has been more focused on what "God has become" than what God really is....
3. The local church wants what THEY want. Not what God wants.
There is a very simple question recorded in Amos 3:3
"Can two walk together, except they be agreed"?
Be back later.... -
RE: Tops 10 reasons to leave your "local church"
Vincent Massi > 08-30-2016, 02:32 PM
PY, you are making valid points. Over the decades, I have seen Christians revitalize their stagnant Christian lives by switching to another church. Sometimes you even have to switch to another group. -
RE: Tops 10 reasons to leave your "local church"
aleshanee > 08-30-2016, 05:56 PM
4... radical change in the churches constitution..... church moves to accept apostasy.. heresy... and/or abomination and puts such things into practice......
basically....i guess you could say when your church ceases to be a church.... and becomes something else... regardless of whether it continues to call itself a church or not....... then you should find a real church that still knows what a church is supposd to be..... and what a church is supposed to stand for..... .... this is the reason i left the church i had been at for almost 2 decades a couple of years ago.... ...and it was a heartbreaking experience but i had to do it..... (actually... come to think of it.... this is probably related to point number 1 in the o.p.. or even related to all 3 points in the o.p. in some ways.... in that case the next point would be point number 4 instead of point 5...)
5.... something is there that you find overwhelmingly disturbing and that you can;t ignore....
some would say this could be related to point number 4 but it doesn;t necessarily have to be...... the thing that bothers you and makes it hard for you attend church doesn;t have to be something apostate or abominal ...... it could be something like the reason i left another church last year...... dead bodies in the basement...... the church had dug up an adjacent cemetery to make room for a new building.... and still had the bones of those it disenterred stored in cardboard boxes in the basement beneath the sanctuary......... .some people..maybe even most... would not be bothered by that at all....... but i was..... ....... when a very conservative friend who still attends there, told me he found that to be a silly reason for leaving a church i ask him if he would be able to sit in that sanctuary if giant size pictures of hillary clinton were hanging on all the walls in plain sight.... and maybe even suspended above the altar?...... ... he got my point...... -
RE: Tops 10 reasons to leave your "local church"
Vincent Massi > 08-31-2016, 09:56 PM
Years ago, I wrote a Bible lesson entitled "Abandon Ship," based on Paul's journey from Jerusalem to Rome. The idea was to help people understand when they needed to abandon a church.
My biggest single point was that when the people who know what's going on are quietly leaving, you have a serious problem. When Jerry Falwell took his church into the Southern Baptist Convention, that should have been a very loud warning to IFBs. -
RE: Tops 10 reasons to leave your "local church"
praise_yeshua > 09-01-2016, 03:43 PM
(08-31-2016, 09:56 PM)Vincent Massi Wrote: Years ago, I wrote a Bible lesson entitled "Abandon Ship," based on Paul's journey from Jerusalem to Rome. The idea was to help people understand when they needed to abandon a church.
My biggest single point was that when the people who know what's going on are quietly leaving, you have a serious problem. When Jerry Falwell took his church into the Southern Baptist Convention, that should have been a very loud warning to IFBs.
I think you're over exaggerating. Liberty has never been like the core of Southern Baptist Churches. Even so, Southern Baptist Churches aren't that much dissimilar to typical many IFB churches.
At times.....IFBs have a real problem with the truth. Its ironic you mostly advocate for your brand of "church"... Yet you endlessly compare things to the standard of the IFB that you've long abandoned.
6. Lack of individual responsibility!
The current local church system that exists in most churches today, doesn't advocate individual responsibility to God. It doesn't. It advocates the individuals responsibility to the collective local assembly and its sole leader..... the "pastor".
This is entirely against the Truth taught in many verses found throughout the Scriptures.
No one.... I mean no one in your local church will stand for you at judgement. Its not going to happen. Your local church family is not going to line up by your side when you stand before God.
YOU and YOU alone will face God for what you've done in this life. WE will all face God individually.........
Pointing to some "pastor" or "local church" to justify your failure to know or follow the Truth of God isn't going to work with God. Telling God..... "that's what my pastor taught me" isn't going to relieve your individual responsibility to know and follow the truth....
Bottom line....
It doesn't matter what your pastor has to say about it. If he's wrong, you're swallowing a lie that you'll face God with in the not too distant future....
I have some advice for you.
Get the TRUTH..... YOURSELF! Get it directly from God. Don't even take my word for it. Get it YOURSELF...
I'd hate to face God and try to tell Him that I didn't care enough about what He said.... to prove it out myself.
You CAN'T RELY ON OTHERS TO DO THIS FOR YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Its too important a task to leave to anyone else.
7. Lack of the SINGULAR focus of Christ!
Php 2:21 For all seek their own, not the things which are Jesus Christ's.
Col 2:19 And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.
Lets face it.
The local church isn't about Christ anymore. It isn't. Its about Awana Clubs. Its about Softball teams. Its about Sunday School and church covenants. Church trips, special recognition for every thing imaginable..... Weddings. Funerals. Special Birthday parties..... Pastor appreciation days.....
You name it. I might even name some more.....
Its really not about Christ anymore. People use Him as the justification for everything else we do!!!!!!
More later!!! -
RE: Top 10 reasons to leave your "local church"
Vincent Massi > 09-01-2016, 07:45 PM
I appreciate the courtesy of your reply, PY. And I am also enjoying your series.
Liberty University is under the control of Thomas Road Baptist Church and is not part of the Southern Baptist Convention. However, Thomas Road Baptist Church is part of the SBC. I continue to be an IFB, but I attend a soul-winning Assemblies of God church where God is blessing and using my wife and I. Staying in the local Baptist church after a small group seized control was not a good idea. Over half the church left because the congregation could not oust them from power. -
RE: Top 10 reasons to leave your "local church"
praise_yeshua > 09-01-2016, 08:33 PM
(09-01-2016, 07:45 PM)Vincent Massi Wrote: I appreciate the courtesy of your reply, PY. And I am also enjoying your series.
Liberty University is under the control of Thomas Road Baptist Church and is not part of the Southern Baptist Convention. However, Thomas Road Baptist Church is part of the SBC. I continue to be an IFB, but I attend a soul-winning Assemblies of God church where God is blessing and using my wife and I. Staying in the local Baptist church after a small group seized control was not a good idea. Over half the church left because the congregation could not oust them from power.
Thanks Vincent!
I'm aware of how things work in Lynchburg. I've attended Thomas Road a few times in my life back before Jerry went on to be with the Lord. I don't know Johnathon very well, but he's certainly..... far above the average IFB in ministry.
I'm just curious....
Just what do you find appealing enough about the IFB...... to still desire being one of them? -
RE: Top 10 reasons to leave your "local church"
Vincent Massi > 09-02-2016, 01:00 AM
My friend PY asks "I'm just curious....
"Just what do you find appealing enough about the IFB...... to still desire being one of them? "
There's more than one reason. One is doctrine. Those who have rejected the KJO movement have essentially gotten the Bible right. The ignoring of spiritual gifts is more of a deficiency than an error. And you are aware that an IFB is allowed to believe any in Scriptural truth, even if the rest of the group does not.
Their music. The case against Christian rock is weaker than they think, but the case FOR Christian rock is non-existent.
Their soul-winning. That's the main reason why I'm going to my current AOG church. Baptist doctrine teaches that I am required to waste the rest of my life in a church with the word "Baptist" in its name, rather than go to a non-Baptist church that God is using.
A common Christian doctrine is that no matter how bad a church is, doctrine is the most important thing. The Bible, however, teaches no such thing. -
RE: Top 10 reasons to leave your "local church"
praise_yeshua > 09-02-2016, 12:28 PM
(09-02-2016, 01:00 AM)Vincent Massi Wrote: My friend PY asks "I'm just curious....
"Just what do you find appealing enough about the IFB...... to still desire being one of them? "
There's more than one reason. One is doctrine. Those who have rejected the KJO movement have essentially gotten the Bible right. The ignoring of spiritual gifts is more of a deficiency than an error. And you are aware that an IFB is allowed to believe any in Scriptural truth, even if the rest of the group does not.
Their music. The case against Christian rock is weaker than they think, but the case FOR Christian rock is non-existent.
Their soul-winning. That's the main reason why I'm going to my current AOG church. Baptist doctrine teaches that I am required to waste the rest of my life in a church with the word "Baptist" in its name, rather than go to a non-Baptist church that God is using.
A common Christian doctrine is that no matter how bad a church is, doctrine is the most important thing. The Bible, however, teaches no such thing.
There's more than one reason. One is doctrine. Those who have rejected the KJO movement have essentially gotten the Bible right. The ignoring of spiritual gifts is more of a deficiency than an error. And you are aware that an IFB is allowed to believe any in Scriptural truth, even if the rest of the group does not.
I know very few IFB that are not KJVO. I can count them one hand. Even those that aren't KJVO..... pretty much act as if they are.
IFB do more than deny spiritual gifts. They often mock those that believe in them. Not that I speak in tongues or heal the sick. I don't. However, they are often just as much a part of the body of Christ than any others.
While IFBs may teach individual soul liberty, they make no practical application or use of the doctrine. At every turn they demand such people conform to their own covenants and doctrines/beliefs. Such teaching is useless in such an environment. There is no "room" in the average IFB local church to believe anything different than what the leadership teaches.
Their soul-winning. That's the main reason why I'm going to my current AOG church. Baptist doctrine teaches that I am required to waste the rest of my life in a church with the word "Baptist" in its name, rather than go to a non-Baptist church that God is using.
I honestly don't like that term. I've posted threads before on how the verse is misused. The "soul winner" mentioned in Proverbs has nothing to do with those that proclaim the Gospel. Even so, we can only preach the Gospel message and love people. This world has long heard the Gospel and rejected it. We are the product of subsequent generation of those that rejected Christ.
Just what do you do at "soul winning" that isn't present in the message of the Gospel?
Baptist require many thing that aren't true. That's why I abandoned their doctrine more than 20 years ago.
I still haven't seen a real reason to still claim them. I see EVERY reason to just claim Christ Jesus. -
RE: Top 10 reasons to leave your "local church"
Vincent Massi > 09-02-2016, 02:09 PM
PY, I'm enjoying this intelligent discussion.
May I ask what church you attend, and do you believe their doctrines?
I agree with you on IFBs' man-made standards. The doctrine that man-made rules are both the cause and result of holiness is contrary to Scripture. But as an IFB, I am allowed to reject unscriptural doctrine, even if most of the group accepts it.