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Pilgrim's Progress vs. HAC

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• Pilgrim's Progress vs. HAC

• Pilgrim's Progress vs. HAC

  Vincent Massi > 09-20-2016, 02:59 PM

  Were any of you taught anything at all about Pilgrim's Progress, by John Bunyan, when you were at HAC?

• RE: Pilgrim's Progress vs. HAC

  Vincent Massi > 09-21-2016, 02:07 PM

  As a student at HAC, I was amazed that "Pilgrim's Progress" was never mentioned and was not in the bookstore. Because so many small Christian companies publish it, it does not make bestselling lists, but it might be the second most widely read book (after the Bible) in English.
  Preferring the Geneva Bible over the KJV, John Bunyan wrote most of the book while in prison for preaching without a license. And as you read the book, you can see why HAC doesn't like it.

• RE: Pilgrim's Progress vs. HAC

  praise_yeshua > 09-21-2016, 05:38 PM

  (09-21-2016, 02:07 PM)Vincent Massi Wrote: As a student at HAC, I was amazed that "Pilgrim's Progress" was never mentioned and was not in the bookstore. Because so many small Christian companies publish it, it does not make bestselling lists, but it might be the second most widely read book (after the Bible) in English.
  Preferring the Geneva Bible over the KJV, John Bunyan wrote most of the book while in prison for preaching without a license. And as you read the book, you can see why HAC doesn't like it.

  
  While you may not see it in Pilgrims Progress. At least when it comes to Predestination and Election, John Bunyan was a Calvinist.

• RE: Pilgrim's Progress vs. HAC

  Vincent Massi > 09-22-2016, 02:18 PM

  PY is right--John Bunyan was a Calvinist.
  
  John Bunyan very strongly taught that if a person is really saved, there will be a major change in his life. The change would be so strong that the family and friends of the new Christian would be able to see this change (even if they didn't like it). Bunyan regarded salvation without a new birth as impossible.
  HAC strongly taught that if a person said "Jesus, please save me," and meant it, he was saved. There was no need of repentance, nor did a changed life have to result. Numbers counted; new births did not.

• RE: Pilgrim's Progress vs. HAC

  Vincent Massi > 09-23-2016, 02:57 PM

  Bunyan held strongly that you were only a genuine Christian if you entered through the narrow gate, also called "The Door." Having entered, you were on The King's Highway (The Path of Righteousness, The Way of Peace, etc.) There were many other ways to get onto this path (tumbling over the wall, entering through a byway) and those who did so really were on the Path of Righteousness, but they would be accounted thieves and robbers at the Celestial City. Genuine Christians could get off this highway, but were always brought back.
  
  And this brings us to two difficult and unusual things that Bunyan appeared to believe...

• RE: Pilgrim's Progress vs. HAC

  Vincent Massi > 09-25-2016, 02:21 AM

  Christian is approaching the Palace Beautiful, when the road narrows between two walls. Two chained lions force travellers to stay on the road. Years later, Bunyan explained that the two lions are the Church of England and the government of England, used by God to frighten Christians into living Godly lives that would not give them an excuse to arrest them.
  
  In Book 2, Great Heart is leading a group of Christians through this path, when they are stopped by"Giant Grim." Great Heart kills him, but before dying, Giant Grim cries out "Will you slay me on my own ground?"
  
  I was puzzled by this story when I read it decades ago, and about two weeks ago researched it to find out what Bunyan was talking about.

• RE: Pilgrim's Progress vs. HAC

  Vincent Massi > 09-25-2016, 07:16 PM

  Bunyan makes clear that Giant Grim is backing up the two lions (The Church of England and the government of England). Grim is not a government official--he is a man who has taken it upon himself to violently fight non-conformists. After the fight, Christiana asks Great Heart how he felt when Grim struck Great Heart to the ground. He replies that it is no worse than what Christ suffered; in other words, Grim does not picture anything spiritual--he pictures physical violence.
  
  Grim maintained that since the church and government forbade other religions in England, he was on his own ground (England) when he fought God's people. Great Heart replied that they (including Grim) were on the King's Highway, and therefore, Grim was a trespasser.
  
  Now, some applications...

• RE: Pilgrim's Progress vs. HAC

  Vincent Massi > 09-26-2016, 02:17 PM

  Most of our fighting is spiritual, not physical, but Jim Vineyard was an exception. Leading a collection of violent gangs at HAC, Jim demanded that students who had been telling the truth begin lying; that students who loved the brethren begin hating them; and that students living Godly lives turn to criminal violence.
  
  Jim preached frequently that he was "the man of God." John Bunyan described him as a trespasser on the King's Highway.
  
  Several weeks after the Dave Hyles scandal exploded, Jack Hyles demanded that his staff reject the Word of God in favor of the KJV. He taught that he was a fundamentalist, but Bunyan called him a trespasser.
  
  Unsaved Southern Baptist leaders demanded that the Convention reject God's Word in favor of modernism. They called themselves "moderates," but Bunyan called them "trespassers."
  
  More than once, Bunyan taught that if a person on the strait and narrow way is an enemy of God's Word and God's people, he is s thief and a robber.

• RE: Pilgrim's Progress vs. HAC

  Vincent Massi > 09-27-2016, 03:12 PM

  I should explain that I believe that both Jack Hyles and Jim Vineyard were genuinely saved.
  
  In both books,the Christians have to pass between the two lions to reach "The Palace Beautiful." One author states that The Palace Beautiful is a Baptist church. Having read the book about twenty times, I never saw anything to suggest this. But if the writer is correct, then John Bunyan believed some unusual things about Baptist churches.

• RE: Pilgrim's Progress vs. HAC

  Vincent Massi > 09-28-2016, 02:47 PM

  The recently-saved Christian enters the Palace Beautiful, where he learns rapidly from what he is shown. He acquires various virtues, is equipped with the armor of God, and stays on good terms with the others.
  
  And then he leaves.
  
  And he never goes back.
  
  Now let's discuss what John Bunyan believed about Baptist churches.
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