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Pilgrim's Progress vs. HAC

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• Pilgrim's Progress vs. HAC

• RE: Pilgrim's Progress vs. HAC

  Vincent Massi > 09-29-2016, 01:33 PM

  John Bunyan showed the same consistent belief in both books: a church has a certain level of spiritual knowledge and experience. Once you achieve that level, you need to move on.
  Christian's first companion, Faithful, simply walks by the Palace Beautiful. His second companion, Hopeful, doesn't even see the place. And despite the benefits he received there, Christian never goes back.
  Advanced spiritual growth, according to Bunyan, came from fellowshipping with advanced Christians who had outgrown the local church.
  Is this an arrogant thing to believe? How many of you still attend the church where you first got saved? After leaving that church, did most of your spiritual growth come from Scripture, fellowship, conferences, the internet, etc.; or from what you learned in your first church?
  Bunyan had a valid point.

• RE: Pilgrim's Progress vs. HAC

  Vincent Massi > 09-30-2016, 02:41 PM

  John Bunyan was pastoring a Baptist church when he wrote Book 2. Christiana, accompanied by her four sons and a friend, set off for the Celestial City. They are quickly assigned Great Heart as their guide, and are even rebuked for not requesting a guide from the very beginning. And more than once, Great Heart bemoans Christian's failure to ask for a guide in Book 1.
  They stop at four churches , each one more spiritually advanced than the previous, and stay a while at all of them. Along the way, they pick up more pilgrims until they are a somewhat diverse group.
  At the last church (The Delectable Mountains), Bunyan makes clear that churches are for children and the elderly to stay in--others are to stay a while and then move on.
  Now, let's apply this to real life...

• RE: Pilgrim's Progress vs. HAC

  Vincent Massi > 10-01-2016, 01:40 PM

  Bunyan taught us to leave a church behind when we outgrew it, but to stay with the same guide for the rest of our lives. I became a disciple of John R. Rice when I got saved, and I learned a lot. But after years of reading his books and newspaper, I was surprised to learn that there were other Biblical truths that he never taught.
  
  HAC recently had a speaker who encouraged them to never change. Yet HAC changed from the Bible to the KJV. Their students forced them to change from gang violence to obeying the law. The bad publicity from the FFF forced them to change from some of their sins. Are you sure that HAC has reached the epitome of knowledge, and that is is impossible to learn anything from Scripture any more?

• RE: Pilgrim's Progress vs. HAC

  Vincent Massi > 10-02-2016, 01:21 PM

  But what if John Bunyan had attended HAC? Would he have been overwhelmed by the numbers, the music, the preaching, etc., and convinced himself that the sins he saw didn't exist?
  
  If he had been taught as badly as we were, would he have been deceived as well?
  
  Tune in tomorrow...

• RE: Pilgrim's Progress vs. HAC

  Vincent Massi > 10-03-2016, 11:38 AM

  Christian encounters a character named "Talkative," who has a great Christian talk. But Talkative's ungodly life shows that his Christianity is nothing but talk. He believes that the first manifestation of grace is a great outcry against sin, but not an abhorrence of sin.
  
  Throughout his writings, Bunyan strongly insists that if a person is born again, it will show in his life.
  
  Dave Hyles divided his workers into two groups: Godly people who did all the work, and ungodly people who were given the credit. John Bunyan would have seen through that.

• RE: Pilgrim's Progress vs. HAC

  Vincent Massi > 10-04-2016, 02:14 PM

  Today we bid "Good-bye" to Christianity's favorite pilgrim, by giving the other side of the story:
  
  Much of the books reflects Bunyan's own limited experience. Spending twelve years in prison, he got most of his theological training by conversing and debating other prisoners, rather than through church.
  
  The characters are very "one-sided." The genuine Christians are all outstanding Christians. Even the weak Christians are plagued by doubts, not ungodliness.
  
  The heroes don't have to work secular jobs, and spend little or no time raising families.
  
  Courteous comments, pro and con, are appreciated.
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