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Enemies Then and Now in the Bible
- Enemies Then and Now in the Bible
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Enemies Then and Now in the Bible
The Rogue Tomato > 05-02-2016, 08:01 PM
The psalms are filled with "prayers" for God to take action against the psalmist's enemies (and God's enemies, and there are thanks when God does protect the psalmist from enemies). Here's one example:
Psalm 109
5 They repay me evil for good,
and hatred for my friendship.
6 Appoint someone evil to oppose my enemy;
let an accuser stand at his right hand.
7 When he is tried, let him be found guilty,
and may his prayers condemn him.
Jesus says, "But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you."
In saying this, did Jesus invalidate the notion of prayer for God to appoint someone to oppose your enemy so that he may be found guilty (and presumably punished)? If so, then what do you do with such psalms? Reject them? If not, why not?
(That particular psalm may have a dual purpose, one of which is prophetic, but there are other psalms like it that don't seem to have a prophetic significance. A simple search would turn up other examples.) -
RE: Enemies Then and Now in the Bible
aleshanee > 05-03-2016, 02:04 AM
(05-02-2016, 08:01 PM)The Rogue Tomato Wrote: The psalms are filled with "prayers" for God to take action against the psalmist's enemies (and God's enemies, and there are thanks when God does protect the psalmist from enemies). Here's one example:
Psalm 109
5 They repay me evil for good,
and hatred for my friendship.
6 Appoint someone evil to oppose my enemy;
let an accuser stand at his right hand.
7 When he is tried, let him be found guilty,
and may his prayers condemn him.
Jesus says, "But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you."
In saying this, did Jesus invalidate the notion of prayer for God to appoint someone to oppose your enemy so that he may be found guilty (and presumably punished)? If so, then what do you do with such psalms? Reject them? If not, why not?
(That particular psalm may have a dual purpose, one of which is prophetic, but there are other psalms like it that don't seem to have a prophetic significance. A simple search would turn up other examples.)
good question...... there are those who say justice should be left entirely up to God in the new testament age and that christians should never pursue it by any means........ and in almost every church i have ever been in.... including the one i;m in now... i have heard the pastors say that there was no justification for christians to pray an imprecatory prayer.....even if they believed in pursuing justice... ...... they all seemed to believe that God would not answer such prayers and some even implied such prayers would backfire against the person praying them.... ....... ... and yet.... i do remember at least one of those same preachers actually preaching a sermon using a text from psalm 35 which is also considered an imprecatory prayer.... ..... it has been a long time ago.... .... and i think the irony of it was lost on me back then..... as well as the significance of the sermon.....
but i don;t know if i would say i reject the psalms that pray for the punishment of an enemy entirely.. .. ..even if i believed such prayers really are no longer justified for christians......... but then i can;t say that even in light of matthew 5-44, that i believe that all such prayers are always wrong.... just like i don;t believe in the doctrine that teaches christians should never pursue justice against someone else in a court of law....... can;t really explain it at this point and time... but i don;t see it as black and white..... i believe there is still a time and place for them.... .... ...
if soldiers pray for God to preserve them in battle and give them victory over an enemy.... (which i know many preachers that believe imprecatory prayers are wrong do on behalf of soldiers on a regular basis)..... would that not also be wrong of them?.... .... ... -
RE: Enemies Then and Now in the Bible
The Rogue Tomato > 05-03-2016, 06:17 PM
Yeah, I had a conversation with a Pastor once about imprecatory psalms/prayer. All I got was a lot of double-talk for an answer. He clearly had no idea how to respond. It's not an easy question. -
RE: Enemies Then and Now in the Bible
The Rogue Tomato > 05-03-2016, 09:33 PM
(05-03-2016, 09:27 PM)JOAN OF ARC Wrote: "Rejoice not when thine enemy falleth, and let not thine heart be glad when he stumbleth: lest the Lord see it, and it displease him, and he turn away his wrath from him." Proverbs 24:17,18
That's true. It's called Schadenfreude, that is, taking pleasure in someone's misfortune. But that's not what an imprecatory prayer is. You're praying that God punishes your enemy for an injustice. That doesn't imply that you'll celebrate it if God does punish the person.
I'm still not totally convinced of either side of the argument -- that we may or should not pray imprecatory prayers. I have prayed that God vindicate me of an injustice, but I can only think of one time when I ever prayed that God punish someone. That was a long time ago, and I wouldn't pray that again, even though that person has never repented or done anything to mend what that person destroyed (and the damage was done to others whom I love, not just me). I've changed since then, and I leave it all up to God. -
RE: Enemies Then and Now in the Bible
The Rogue Tomato > 05-03-2016, 09:51 PM
(05-03-2016, 09:48 PM)JOAN OF ARC Wrote: "And he spake a parable unto them to this end, that men ought always to pray, and not to faint; 2 saying, There was in a city a judge, which feared not God, neither regarded man: 3 and there was a widow in that city; and she came unto him, saying, Avenge me of mine adversary. 4 And he would not for a while: but afterward he said within himself, Though I fear not God, nor regard man; 5 yet because this widow troubleth me, I will avenge her, lest by her continual coming she weary me. 6 And the Lord said, Hear what the unjust judge saith. 7 And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them? 8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?" Luke 18:1-8
Great quote.
A long, long, time ago, someone wronged my family and then moved to a dangerous place. My sister remarked something like, "I can't believe [that person] moved to [that dangerous place], where [that person] will constantly be in danger of getting maimed or killed.
I said, "Well, I'll keep it in prayer."
It was a joke. My sister understood immediately and laughed.